I'm wondering about the 2 support cards. They don't state "this round" for the buffs. Is this inconsistent wording or does anyone think it's a permanent buff in stats? (All other support cards specify "this round", except Shen and stirred spirits - but barrier and ephemeral only last one round by definition anyway)
Edit: ok I realised the cards say "Grant" instead of "Give", thus the buffs are indeed permanent.
Really interesting you should say that, because Swim just brought a Deep deck without Nautilus to a Twitch Rivals tournament and placed first. I thought a Deep deck w/o Nautilus sounded absolutely crazy, but turns out it does pretty okay, at least in a tournament format.
Thanks for the deck lists, interesting to see what's considered the cream of the meta. I managed to go 7-2 with a slightly greedier than usual Sejuani + MF deck (with Tuskraider and Wolfriders). 1 loss to Elusives (managed to barely scrape a win against another), and another loss to a Teemo Sej deck that drew the nuts.
Yes, with the duplicate protection you also can "condition" your champion capsule to open any champion you want.
Example: You want Sejuani on Freljord capsule, you can craft 3 copy of all 4 other champs (12 cards) to make sure you open it. I know it kinda expensive, but on freljord you already got some starter champs.
Props to swimstrim for this. Hope this help some people.
Yes I did know about this trick from Swim, but I'd heard some conflicting things about whether or not you could get champions from regions other than the region road you were on.
Anyway I did dig a bit more in the Runeterra website and managed to find confirmation...
Quote From Author
OWN EVERY EPIC AND/OR CHAMPION CARD IN A REGION?!
Woah! That's wild! If you own every champion, epic, or both in the Region Road that you're currently on, don't worry. If you draw another Champion or Epic Wildcard, you’ll be granted one from another Region! Own every Champion and/or Epic IN THE ENTIRE GAME?! Even I’m impressed! You’ll be given Shards according to the conversion numbers below. No Runeterran need leave empty handed.
Epic: 250 Shards
Champion: 750 Shards
So, yeah... may not be worth it to intentionally craft all Champions, because you'd just be opening shards otherwise.
I just wanted to share this in case it's useful for anyone.. I looked around but couldn't find a definite answer to this elsewhere.
Turns out, if you open a champion capsule from a region that you already have all the champions for, you'll get a champion from another region instead.
For me it was SI.
I wasn't sure if I would just get 750 shards instead of a champion.. but thankfully I unlocked Lee Sin instead.
I think there are a few problems with the klepto cards. People have already talked about card advantage and Freljord buffs.
But I think one major advantage that frustrates me, is asymmetric information advantage. If my opponent draws my Ruination, not only does he know he needs to play around it less, but I DON'T know what part of my own deck to play around. And it's just frustrating to play around my opponent deck as well as my own deck.
Another example is I once played 2 pilfered goods, and snagged 3 will of ionias. I now know that I don't need to play around it at all, but my opponent has no idea what I'm capable of doing to his units.
I think it would help if they made the stolen cards visible to the player they were stolen from, so at least the victim knows what the opponent knows. If I know to play around a Ruination / Deny etc specifically, it won't be so frustrating when it does come out.
I'm not trying to impugn Swim's credibility here, I just think Mobalytics should build those lists based on data which is itself transparent, and their methodologies should be clearly explained on the page, rather than just leaving it up to one or two streamers to interpret the data however they see fit. I shouldn't have to go watch YouTube videos to figure out how these deck lists are being picked, especially when there may well be variance in similar lists for teching purposes.
Fair point, I also wish that the Mobalytics data was transparent and readily available, like how HSreplay data is for HS.
For what it's worth, if you watch Swim's Youtube channel on the meta tier list each week, you'll see that the way he arranges decks by tier level is highly data driven (he has access to Mobalytics statistics) including win rate, number of games played etc.
For me personally I think Quest Rogue was probably one of the biggest offenders. Survived multiple (2?) big nerfs and was still a big problem. Pre nerf Grim Patron with Warsong Commander was also crazy strong.
But those 2 decks had very high skill ceilings, and so I can kind of forgive them their faults.
Whereas I thought Jade Druid, with its infinite armor gain, walls of taunts, and complete suffocation of control decks was just unpleasant. And Highlander Raza priest just lived or died on whether it drew Raza in time or not, which was silly.
What, in your opinion, is the most broken deck in the history of Hearthstone? 2 parts to the question..:
1. Broken relative to the power level of the other decks at the time (i.e. had the best meta win rate ever)
2. Broken overall (i.e. most powerful deck that has ever existed)
I wonder, if you threw all the pre-nerf broken decks together in a Tavern Brawl, which would be the best performing deck? How would Quest Rogue do against Grim Patron Warrior, Cubelock, Raza Priest, Freeze Mage? Was Jade Druid really as powerful as it seemed? Do any of them hold a candle to Gala Shaman? Do golden oldies like Deathrattle Hunter or Combo Druid even stand a chance?
I'm wondering about the 2 support cards. They don't state "this round" for the buffs. Is this inconsistent wording or does anyone think it's a permanent buff in stats? (All other support cards specify "this round", except Shen and stirred spirits - but barrier and ephemeral only last one round by definition anyway)
Edit: ok I realised the cards say "Grant" instead of "Give", thus the buffs are indeed permanent.
Agreed. The list looked absolutely ridiculous to me too.
Really interesting you should say that, because Swim just brought a Deep deck without Nautilus to a Twitch Rivals tournament and placed first. I thought a Deep deck w/o Nautilus sounded absolutely crazy, but turns out it does pretty okay, at least in a tournament format.
His decklist:
https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/bs7m9j9la4s47chtlg7g
Although a caveat being that the Deep deck he recommends for ladder does include 2x Nautilus.
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification
Thanks for the deck lists, interesting to see what's considered the cream of the meta. I managed to go 7-2 with a slightly greedier than usual Sejuani + MF deck (with Tuskraider and Wolfriders). 1 loss to Elusives (managed to barely scrape a win against another), and another loss to a Teemo Sej deck that drew the nuts.
Just to point out, the Braum midrange deck is Mogwai's decklist right? https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/brov6spla4s47chvkvcg . Might be worth giving credit to the deck creator if it's an identifiable source.
Yes I did know about this trick from Swim, but I'd heard some conflicting things about whether or not you could get champions from regions other than the region road you were on.
Anyway I did dig a bit more in the Runeterra website and managed to find confirmation...
So, yeah... may not be worth it to intentionally craft all Champions, because you'd just be opening shards otherwise.
I just wanted to share this in case it's useful for anyone.. I looked around but couldn't find a definite answer to this elsewhere.
Turns out, if you open a champion capsule from a region that you already have all the champions for, you'll get a champion from another region instead.
For me it was SI.
I wasn't sure if I would just get 750 shards instead of a champion.. but thankfully I unlocked Lee Sin instead.
I think there are a few problems with the klepto cards. People have already talked about card advantage and Freljord buffs.
But I think one major advantage that frustrates me, is asymmetric information advantage. If my opponent draws my Ruination, not only does he know he needs to play around it less, but I DON'T know what part of my own deck to play around. And it's just frustrating to play around my opponent deck as well as my own deck.
Another example is I once played 2 pilfered goods, and snagged 3 will of ionias. I now know that I don't need to play around it at all, but my opponent has no idea what I'm capable of doing to his units.
I think it would help if they made the stolen cards visible to the player they were stolen from, so at least the victim knows what the opponent knows. If I know to play around a Ruination / Deny etc specifically, it won't be so frustrating when it does come out.
Fair point, I also wish that the Mobalytics data was transparent and readily available, like how HSreplay data is for HS.
For what it's worth, if you watch Swim's Youtube channel on the meta tier list each week, you'll see that the way he arranges decks by tier level is highly data driven (he has access to Mobalytics statistics) including win rate, number of games played etc.
OldFashioned #1234
SEA region
For me personally I think Quest Rogue was probably one of the biggest offenders. Survived multiple (2?) big nerfs and was still a big problem. Pre nerf Grim Patron with Warsong Commander was also crazy strong.
But those 2 decks had very high skill ceilings, and so I can kind of forgive them their faults.
Whereas I thought Jade Druid, with its infinite armor gain, walls of taunts, and complete suffocation of control decks was just unpleasant. And Highlander Raza priest just lived or died on whether it drew Raza in time or not, which was silly.
I guess I was thinking of Standard decks when I posted, it seemed like Wild had just too many broken things!
What, in your opinion, is the most broken deck in the history of Hearthstone? 2 parts to the question..:
1. Broken relative to the power level of the other decks at the time (i.e. had the best meta win rate ever)
2. Broken overall (i.e. most powerful deck that has ever existed)
I wonder, if you threw all the pre-nerf broken decks together in a Tavern Brawl, which would be the best performing deck? How would Quest Rogue do against Grim Patron Warrior, Cubelock, Raza Priest, Freeze Mage? Was Jade Druid really as powerful as it seemed? Do any of them hold a candle to Gala Shaman? Do golden oldies like Deathrattle Hunter or Combo Druid even stand a chance?