Don't worry folks Secret Passage is a rogue card. I'm sure it will eventually get nerfed somehow in the future too, just like most non-horrible rogue cards.
I feel they are taking a lot of the dual class cards too safely due to dual class cards being a semi-new mechanic. You're not playing this in wild and in standard it isn't exactly a great card.
I have to actually agree lol. I had to actually look at the bottom of the card to see the distinct line separating the two shades of green next to each other xD
Res priest is not a good deck right now, so a nerf would be completely uncalled for.
Why do people hate this deck so much? It's slow, clunky and does nothing but summon proactive threats.
If they print more ways for priests to accelerate out the minions, rather than just replaying cards they have already played, then the deck would probably occupy the same niche as big shaman, but with better lategame. That could be a problem, but it just isn't right now, and I can't imagine them ever printing that kind of card at a pushed cost.
The types of answers available to the different classes are lackluster when trying to answer big and tall Big Priest boards depending on your class, even in wild, and that feels bad and quite punishing. For example, take rogue and druid for example. If you don't play aggro builds for either of those classes you aren't winning by pressuring them down as a win con so you're going to have to answer their threats. As those two classes how do you do that? Poison Seeds (this doesn't prevent the threats from immediately coming back next turn to pose the same immediately demanded answer), Vanish/Sap (Again it doesn't prevent rezzing or just replaying them). I don't believe in making classes good at everything and they do need their weaknesses, but being one class and queuing into another class shouldn't signal to you that you've lost right away. That never feels good in a video game.
Also, the swing turns are punishing in the late game, as well as rng compounding this problem even more. Vargoth legit carries the modern archtype all by itself. Vargoth can create 6 mana minion swing turns for a mere 9 mana, often because one Mass Res high rolls into just one Vargoth clone. It's one thing to be able to expect Mass Res bringing back 3 big minions that you can try to prepare a counter play for, but having to guess if that 3 mana summon is really going to be a 6 or 7 mana summon is something else. And this play isn't even uncommon or hard to pull off. In fact, you can even duplicate this play multiple times simply by high rolling a Shadow Vision discover option and insta picking Mass Res.
I think the real question about big priest is why do people still play it? It's clearly bad specially in this meta but for some reason some ppl just like to giggle like little idiots when they play a 2 mana card rez an 8+drop.
People like playing decks that are on autopilot, shudderwock shaman, rez priest, aviana kun combo druid, Zul'jin hunter. Makes them have to make as little decision making as possible
I don't think it's fair to make combo decks the scapegoat here. I've played plenty of control and aggro decks that have been quite auto pilot (Yes, even the beloved Reno Warlock is such a snoozefest when you're playing a control mirror).
I'm really not a fan of this proposal though (and no I'm not a Big/Rez Priest fan or player, I actually really dislike the deck). Nerfing the rez mechanic in priest would just make any smaller rez synergies in other classes much more terrible in comparison. I also messes with generated copies of other cards that can rez the same non-priest card a 2nd time. So by nerfing priest we're really nerfing every class.
The problem, in wild, is that Barnes was nerfed conveniently in time for Vargoth to replace him immediately. And that was honestly a buff to the deck, as I had said before the Barnes nerf was live then, because it made the pool more consistent and traded Barnes high rolling turn 4 wins for Vargoth's immense value engines and swing turns from high rolling Vargoth from Mass Resurrections to generate instant boards in one turn from an empty board, and be able to do that multiple times in the high end game.
Since players generally refuse to use tech cards that summon wimpy minions on the opponent's board (because "Omg, how dare tech cards lower my win rates against decks I'm not targetting instead of being instant good cards like pre-nerf Albatross), I think the only realistic nerf now is by giving more classes transform effects, within reason (like the dual class shaman/mage spell).
Didn't think to play around potion of madness on my 2/2, into the priest's double Nightmare Ysera spells, into double Mind Blast (one copied from my hand & one from my deck), into the 5 damage Ysera spell.
Went from 24 health to dead against a non-OTK deck that had an empty board. Wow Mr. Reno Steal Priest, I salute your clearly superior skill
I have to wholeheartedly disagree with this. Changes things just for the sake of change is actually bad for the long term health of the game and players' collections. Not every player likes the throwaway mentality when it comes to cards (i.e. That when you get bored of a card or deck you never want to play it again, and thus don't care if the card or deck gets over nerfed). It also hurts players, both the players that don't pay real money for their cards and those that do, because you can never really count on any deck being consistent or viable due to it randomly being changed out of the blue, in a world where changes happen just for 'reasons' and not actual balance concerns.
One question. Would you or your friends/family be more or less likely to spend money on HS if any of your decks / cards you bought could lose the 'random weekly roulette of nerfing' and make your deck fundamentally different or weaker than what caused you to love that deck or card in the first place?
EDIT: Also, if you make nerfs and changes to the game super constantly it essentially means players do not have to think of counter plays and strategies to any particular deck. After all, why think of ways to counter your opponent if their deck is just automatically going to get nerfed in 1 or 2 weeks? Imo games should be both fun and reward deck tinkering/countering at the same time.
Honestly the Alex nerf and consistent high-rolling is yet again more of a symptom and problem of the standard format. Due to the significantly smaller pool of cards in standard at any given time, Alex could realistically roll into good dragons a fair amount of the time. However, this is not the problem in wild. We have many more low and midrange dragons so the high-roll is more exactly that, a pipe dream high roll when compared to consistent high rolling in standard. It would've been so easy to print poorer quality dragons in standard to alleviate this problem so much.
It's unfortunate the amount of cards that get axed solely for a flaw in on of the game's formats and not the other.
Alex is a semi-terrible card now. She is essentially more of a win-more card now. If you're facing a threatening board/pressure on turn 9 you simply cannot play her because as I've mentioned in previous threads she is a turn 9 vanilla 8/8 that does nothing to affect the board. She is too slow for anything except a turn 10 or later play. And if you low roll both dragons on turn 10 you pretty much skipped your turn unless your opponent literally developed no board for you to drop Alex on.
Btw, so much for waiting until the next expansion's impact on highlander decks before nerfing Alex.
Well my fav has and probably will always be Spectral Pillager Rogue (the one BEFORE Galakrond made it popular with all of those extra coins). I have played it with Scorp-o-Matics and Sonya since forever it feels like now. I just love racing to get as many robot scorpions to canibalize each other before the combo finishing damage at the end. Although, that isn't to say I don't love using Galakrond and Togwaggle to more efficiently thin my deck towards the combo though. I love surprising people with the combo that will close out the game. HS needs more surprise meme decks instead of the exact same thing all of the time by thousands of players.
I also enjoy, probably way more than I should lol, Ice Cream Shaman. It's amazing seeing how much armor you can get, but is even more amazing seeing just how many players actually will continue the game to see how much armor you can get to before they get bored, or one of us d/cs. Very often it is a group effort ironically xD
The only thing I hate about Burgle Rogue is when they simply make themselves into a pseudo-Kingsbane Rogue deck if they run the weapon with weapon buffs. Without weapon removal you just very often lose to a 10+ infinite durability lifesteal weapon, unless you play aggro. Imo it takes no skill to mindlessly crush face with enormous damage, while only occasionally making a trade.
So I guess I'm sort of opposite of you when it comes to Burgle Rogue? It is the cards that they do have that I hate, because regardless of what rng gives them it makes their weapon akin to horribly designed Kingsbane.
I'm in the middle when it comes to RNG in HS. I don't like how some classes are arbitrarily pigeon-holed into an almost complete clown fiesta class. I'm fine with clown fiesta decks available to a class, but don't make the entire class that with way too much RNG.
On the other hand, in games where there is either no RNG or significantly less RNG when compared to HS (Thinking of Yu-Gi-Oh, which yes still has a lot of rng, but nothing like HS) match-ups become much more solved from the get-go. People like to think they'd like a HS without rng, but the history of the game has already proven that wrong once you realize that without rng the only thing saving you from a disadvantageous match-up is card draw rng and misplays. For example, remember pre-pre-nerfed Quest Rogue. For the most part the deck wasn't an rng generating machine, but hordes of slow control players complained about the match-up usually being an insta lose when they queued up against them. The state of HS would turn more into that. The control class that has more removals & value generators almost always win against the control class that has fewer of them. The class that has been more refined for hyper aggressive play in the recent expansions will generally always fair better than the aggro class that has been given fewer pressure and snow-bally cards/effects.
RNG can save you from automatically losing a generally lost match-up instead of knowing you've lost right away when facing a player of equal skill and knowledge as you.
It's because they didn't like rogue having pre-nerfed Galakrond this past meta so they had to give us a filler legendary this time around
Yay?
Don't worry folks Secret Passage is a rogue card. I'm sure it will eventually get nerfed somehow in the future too, just like most non-horrible rogue cards.
Confiscation, is that you?
Both rogue legendaries are pretty meh for standard this expansion and unplayable in wild. Fairly disappointed tbh
I feel they are taking a lot of the dual class cards too safely due to dual class cards being a semi-new mechanic. You're not playing this in wild and in standard it isn't exactly a great card.
I have to actually agree lol. I had to actually look at the bottom of the card to see the distinct line separating the two shades of green next to each other xD
Random interesting side note, the phrase "both neighbors" being used instead of "adjacent minions"
Wonder if this is intentional changing up of the card text or not
That's true, but it's not anything consistent since you can't guarantee you will get offered an aoe.
A consistent aoe you can depend on for a specific situation and that you can actually include in your deck would be better imo.
Warrior/Rogue:
Rogue actually gets a board clear
No? Anyone?
Okay I'll leave now
The types of answers available to the different classes are lackluster when trying to answer big and tall Big Priest boards depending on your class, even in wild, and that feels bad and quite punishing. For example, take rogue and druid for example. If you don't play aggro builds for either of those classes you aren't winning by pressuring them down as a win con so you're going to have to answer their threats. As those two classes how do you do that? Poison Seeds (this doesn't prevent the threats from immediately coming back next turn to pose the same immediately demanded answer), Vanish/Sap (Again it doesn't prevent rezzing or just replaying them). I don't believe in making classes good at everything and they do need their weaknesses, but being one class and queuing into another class shouldn't signal to you that you've lost right away. That never feels good in a video game.
Also, the swing turns are punishing in the late game, as well as rng compounding this problem even more. Vargoth legit carries the modern archtype all by itself. Vargoth can create 6 mana minion swing turns for a mere 9 mana, often because one Mass Res high rolls into just one Vargoth clone. It's one thing to be able to expect Mass Res bringing back 3 big minions that you can try to prepare a counter play for, but having to guess if that 3 mana summon is really going to be a 6 or 7 mana summon is something else. And this play isn't even uncommon or hard to pull off. In fact, you can even duplicate this play multiple times simply by high rolling a Shadow Vision discover option and insta picking Mass Res.
I don't think it's fair to make combo decks the scapegoat here. I've played plenty of control and aggro decks that have been quite auto pilot (Yes, even the beloved Reno Warlock is such a snoozefest when you're playing a control mirror).
I'm really not a fan of this proposal though (and no I'm not a Big/Rez Priest fan or player, I actually really dislike the deck). Nerfing the rez mechanic in priest would just make any smaller rez synergies in other classes much more terrible in comparison. I also messes with generated copies of other cards that can rez the same non-priest card a 2nd time. So by nerfing priest we're really nerfing every class.
The problem, in wild, is that Barnes was nerfed conveniently in time for Vargoth to replace him immediately. And that was honestly a buff to the deck, as I had said before the Barnes nerf was live then, because it made the pool more consistent and traded Barnes high rolling turn 4 wins for Vargoth's immense value engines and swing turns from high rolling Vargoth from Mass Resurrections to generate instant boards in one turn from an empty board, and be able to do that multiple times in the high end game.
Since players generally refuse to use tech cards that summon wimpy minions on the opponent's board (because "Omg, how dare tech cards lower my win rates against decks I'm not targetting instead of being instant good cards like pre-nerf Albatross), I think the only realistic nerf now is by giving more classes transform effects, within reason (like the dual class shaman/mage spell).
Wow.
Didn't think to play around potion of madness on my 2/2, into the priest's double Nightmare Ysera spells, into double Mind Blast (one copied from my hand & one from my deck), into the 5 damage Ysera spell.
Went from 24 health to dead against a non-OTK deck that had an empty board. Wow Mr. Reno Steal Priest, I salute your clearly superior skill
Super pumped about dual class cards.
Although I have to chuckle that T5 made such an uproar about class identity just to release dual class cards not that far off from that announcement.
Not sure they know what they want for this game lol
Glad to hear you stuck it out and had fun with the combo!
I have to wholeheartedly disagree with this. Changes things just for the sake of change is actually bad for the long term health of the game and players' collections. Not every player likes the throwaway mentality when it comes to cards (i.e. That when you get bored of a card or deck you never want to play it again, and thus don't care if the card or deck gets over nerfed). It also hurts players, both the players that don't pay real money for their cards and those that do, because you can never really count on any deck being consistent or viable due to it randomly being changed out of the blue, in a world where changes happen just for 'reasons' and not actual balance concerns.
One question. Would you or your friends/family be more or less likely to spend money on HS if any of your decks / cards you bought could lose the 'random weekly roulette of nerfing' and make your deck fundamentally different or weaker than what caused you to love that deck or card in the first place?
EDIT: Also, if you make nerfs and changes to the game super constantly it essentially means players do not have to think of counter plays and strategies to any particular deck. After all, why think of ways to counter your opponent if their deck is just automatically going to get nerfed in 1 or 2 weeks? Imo games should be both fun and reward deck tinkering/countering at the same time.
Honestly the Alex nerf and consistent high-rolling is yet again more of a symptom and problem of the standard format. Due to the significantly smaller pool of cards in standard at any given time, Alex could realistically roll into good dragons a fair amount of the time. However, this is not the problem in wild. We have many more low and midrange dragons so the high-roll is more exactly that, a pipe dream high roll when compared to consistent high rolling in standard. It would've been so easy to print poorer quality dragons in standard to alleviate this problem so much.
It's unfortunate the amount of cards that get axed solely for a flaw in on of the game's formats and not the other.
Alex is a semi-terrible card now. She is essentially more of a win-more card now. If you're facing a threatening board/pressure on turn 9 you simply cannot play her because as I've mentioned in previous threads she is a turn 9 vanilla 8/8 that does nothing to affect the board. She is too slow for anything except a turn 10 or later play. And if you low roll both dragons on turn 10 you pretty much skipped your turn unless your opponent literally developed no board for you to drop Alex on.
Btw, so much for waiting until the next expansion's impact on highlander decks before nerfing Alex.
All of the meme decks I play lol...
Well my fav has and probably will always be Spectral Pillager Rogue (the one BEFORE Galakrond made it popular with all of those extra coins). I have played it with Scorp-o-Matics and Sonya since forever it feels like now. I just love racing to get as many robot scorpions to canibalize each other before the combo finishing damage at the end. Although, that isn't to say I don't love using Galakrond and Togwaggle to more efficiently thin my deck towards the combo though. I love surprising people with the combo that will close out the game. HS needs more surprise meme decks instead of the exact same thing all of the time by thousands of players.
I also enjoy, probably way more than I should lol, Ice Cream Shaman. It's amazing seeing how much armor you can get, but is even more amazing seeing just how many players actually will continue the game to see how much armor you can get to before they get bored, or one of us d/cs. Very often it is a group effort ironically xD
The only thing I hate about Burgle Rogue is when they simply make themselves into a pseudo-Kingsbane Rogue deck if they run the weapon with weapon buffs. Without weapon removal you just very often lose to a 10+ infinite durability lifesteal weapon, unless you play aggro. Imo it takes no skill to mindlessly crush face with enormous damage, while only occasionally making a trade.
So I guess I'm sort of opposite of you when it comes to Burgle Rogue? It is the cards that they do have that I hate, because regardless of what rng gives them it makes their weapon akin to horribly designed Kingsbane.
I'm in the middle when it comes to RNG in HS. I don't like how some classes are arbitrarily pigeon-holed into an almost complete clown fiesta class. I'm fine with clown fiesta decks available to a class, but don't make the entire class that with way too much RNG.
On the other hand, in games where there is either no RNG or significantly less RNG when compared to HS (Thinking of Yu-Gi-Oh, which yes still has a lot of rng, but nothing like HS) match-ups become much more solved from the get-go. People like to think they'd like a HS without rng, but the history of the game has already proven that wrong once you realize that without rng the only thing saving you from a disadvantageous match-up is card draw rng and misplays. For example, remember pre-pre-nerfed Quest Rogue. For the most part the deck wasn't an rng generating machine, but hordes of slow control players complained about the match-up usually being an insta lose when they queued up against them. The state of HS would turn more into that. The control class that has more removals & value generators almost always win against the control class that has fewer of them. The class that has been more refined for hyper aggressive play in the recent expansions will generally always fair better than the aggro class that has been given fewer pressure and snow-bally cards/effects.
RNG can save you from automatically losing a generally lost match-up instead of knowing you've lost right away when facing a player of equal skill and knowledge as you.