Nifty129's Avatar

Nifty129

Banned
Joined 05/29/2020 Achieve Points 590 Posts 1235

Nifty129's Comments

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    Dude I'm sorry but elusives is not a deck that people run in this game at any tier.

     

    Go to swims site if you want to net deck, but he wouldn't have updated for post patch yet.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    Its not a prediction, its already happened. 9/10 of recent streamer vids post patch feature frejord, and Sejuani. While there is flexibility in terms of what region you combine with it, it's pretty obvious what has become top tier.

     

    Youre best second choice for a primary control region is shadow like usual, with bilge being the best card advantage engine to include with shadow or freijord. 

     

    Ezreal as I mentioned is struggling right now because mystic shot and get excited dont have any good targets.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    If you havent noticed the changes in the meta yet that's okay, give it a week.

     

    All I see is instant Demacia conceeds as soon as turn 1 plays get answered.

     

    Like literally what are they gonna do menace you with a 3 attack badger bear, thats not exactly a scary play anymore compared to the buffing potential of Frejord.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    Honestly, plunder is it's own win con.

     

    It turns out that if your opponent runs out of cards they can't play the video game anymore.

     

    That's why bilge Frej with Sej and TF is one of the best lists out of the new meta.

     

    I'm usually ahead of the curve on stuff like this and the fact that the first response is a casual shrug, vs the you're wrongs I was getting before indicates that people are accepting that the game is different now.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    The times they are a changing boys.

     

    Assumptions made by streamers and pro players prior to the release of the patch have been proven false.

     

    The sooner you accept this, the better you will do on ranked ladder.

     

    So which regions were the big winners.

     

    Tier 1 - Frejord

     

     Yup from meme to dream, slow rolling is how the game is played now and this region is the best at that style of play

     

    It turns out that early game pressure doesn't exist to keep this faction in check anymore

     

    You can pair it with Noxious, or Shadow or Ionia or Bilge

     

    It honestly doesn't really matter, you can even go pure allegiance

     

    Expect to see an obnoxious amount of Sejuani over the next month

     

    Tier 2 - Bilgewater

     

    This faction is just a card advantage control machine and in a meta where healing doesn't matter this is very very strong

     

    You can run any champions that generate additional value but TF is the best at this.

     

    What else is there to say plunder effects are very good right now

     

    Tier 3 - Shadow Isles

     

    Healing's decreased importance see's Shadow drop down a bit but the sheer flexibility of the faction means it's still very strong.

     

    Run keg control, run ephemerals for fun, probably not spiders anymore, but sea monsters and they who endure are fine.

     

    Tier 4 - Ionia

     

    Stun effects, will of ionia, counter spells these things are naturally good in a slower meta

     

    But we can't pretend that this faction wasn't nerfed decently hard

     

    Ironically, enlightened decks with Fejord are okay now, again no early game pressure

     

    Stun decks with mr samurai were designed to deal with aggro and midrange and they don't exist anymore

     

    Tier 5 - P And Z

     

    The burn nerfs hit harder than anyone else predicted and Temo is not a good sub for rearguard

     

    He is too R And G and he doesn't interact well with transfusion

     

    Ezreal is fine, but P and Z struggles to deal with huge creatures, 3 thermos will only get you so far

     

    Heim has similar issues where his turrets don't deal with overwhelm

     

    Tier 6 - Noxious

     

    The aggro noxious identity isn't really a thing now, but the Vlad list is so strong that it almost makes up for it

     

    Swain is a little worse by proxy, in a game where you can't bring the nexus health down to 0 by turn 6

     

    Tier 7 - Demacia

     

    Oh how the mighty have fallen bannerman are nowhere to be seen, or missfortunes scouts, or Fiora thanks to the stand alone nerf

     

    That really just leaves Lux, who again 4 damage removal  is less valuable when every list has unlimited card advantage and huge dudes

     

    I look forward to all of the angry trolls in the comments and the silent confirmation that this list is accurate in the next two weeks.

     

     

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    Just gotta embrace the way the game works now. I have found that things have slown down enough for TF and have been enjoying that style of game play.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    We've already seen the push to a slower meta with streamers.

     

    The number of 1 drops have basically been removed from lists,, unless they have card cycling or buffing potential.

     

    Everything needs to trade 2 for 1.

     

    Any win con that exists before turn 6 is unattainable.

     

    I'm sorry but this is simple how the game functions now hate me all you want.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    The point wasn't that one opinion is better than an other, but that fan feedback is bad for strategy card games.

     

    I opened with the Gwent example for a reason, fan feedback killed that game.

     

    So here we see the case where Riot is balancing based on fan complaints.

     

    Burn had a higher winrate with rearguard turn 1 so it gets deleted, even if that makes a lot of other noxious decks worse.

     

    Badger bear is over tuned so it gets nerfed even if it makes midrange unplayable.

     

    Zed lists were upsetting to pro players so they get deleted.

     

    This is a bad way to balance a game historically, and your vs my opinion is irrelevant in the face of that.

     

    Just release new sets, and let the balance adjust in the face of new mechanics minus tiny tweaks don't kill entire archetypes.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    I was using burn as the example of unintended effects. Which granted you seemed to have missed.

     

    They wanted to nerf burn and only hit 1 of it's trademark tools. Boomcrew

     

    Then they nerfed rearguard which hurt Noxious's region identity.

     

    You have to understand that only 20 percent of a card game operates based on tier lists.

     

    mtg understands this that's why prices are impacted by commander not standard.

     

    There was a better way to nerf burn without harming low tier noxious champions like Katarina and Darius

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    I'm just coming at this as a guy with nearly 20 years of competitive card game experience.

     

    Its fine if you dislike the predictions it doesn't make them any less correct.

     

    There is also the budget player considerations that again make up the majority of your player base.

     

    Nerfing things that aren't top tier doesn't make sense, unless you are fostering a very particular play style that only appeals to a very small but cash rich player base.

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    Banned 590 1235 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 years, 11 months ago

    There has always been pros and cons of live card balancing in games when compared to the hands off approach of mtg.

     

    For one, you can unintentionally ruin what has made you game fun by listening to your fans, Gwent being a great example with it's gold update.

     

    Similarly, with it's limited card pool and emphasis on champions,  Legends of Runterra has to be cautious not to make too many archetypes unplayable.

     

    So what changes did we see and what are the meta implications...

     

    1. Stand alone no longer works with Zed, this list want never top tier so why did Riot want to kill this champion

     

    2. Elise is worse because she can't flood the board with brood swarm - again not on the tier list so this nerf doesn't make sense

     

    3. Legion rearguard was an aggro card not a burn card per say, so now Darius and Katarina are worse

     

    4. Badger bear was showing up in control decks, but they nerfed the damage not the toughness, so they made it worse at aggro but still good in control

     

    5. Unyielding spirit still exists so Fiora is fine, even though she was the nerf target

     

    6. Boomcrew nerf was needed and well implemented

     

    7. Grizzles ranger got double nerfed and is now unplayable

     

    Unintended meta consequences

     

    control variants are the only archetypes worth playing mid range and aggro are dead

     

    So no bannerman, no noxious anything that isn't swain

     

    Region diversity will appear healthy, but deck archetypes will all be very slow

     

    Fun for some, absolutely awful for the majority of players 2/3

     

     

     

     

     

     

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