Indeed, but that would have to be 2 turns later, where I would be dead already. And that would be 2 more cards to draw, where he could draw Decimate and Blade's Edge and in that case he didn't even need to attack or a board at all.
That's why I gave a practical example, and not an assuming one. Because when we enter the realm of assumptions, everything is possible ;)
When it comes to analysis, 'practical examples' are better known as 'anecdotal evidence' and are generally worthless. Anyone can come up with a scenario in which a card is gamewinning.
Moving on.
Quote From FortyDust
Roughly the same stats as other 8-drops
Immediately deals direct damage to enemy nexus (up to 10 damage!)
Returns to hand and can be resummoned for infinite value, infinite direct damage (expensive, but infinite nonetheless)
Fearsome, so impossible to chump block
Very few ways in the entire game to keep him from coming back
Alternative view:
- There are barely any 8-drops in the game, so stat-comparison doesn't really have much of a sample size. Small enough, in fact, that it's not unreasonable to ask 'okay, well, are the other 8-drops too weak rather than this one too strong?'. I would however note that he shares a mana slot with Ren Shadowblade, who literally sits on board saying 'your opponent now cannot develop a board, ever, until I'm removed'.
- Direct damage which is scaled to be incredibly inefficient as a finisher and strong if levelling a playing field; being burn in and of itself doesn't indicate an abundance of power.
- Historically, people tend to overvalue 'infinite' effects from my experience. Saw it a lot in HS - people tend to ignore the actual value of the card in favour of what can happen in incredibly obscure circumstances. While still relevant for balance purposes (of course), you're not going to see the card bounced more than a couple of times in the vast majority of games.
- Fearsome - sure. On the other hand, you're running at least 8 mana at this point - you can afford to block with something other than chumps. However, further point on this below.
Having thought further on the Fearsome point - generally speaking I don't value Fearsome all that highly, particularly on expensive cards (if you're getting that late into the game and still relying on chumps, you're having issues, is my usual feeling). However in this case, Fearsome has the secondary issue which I don't see anyone raising - top-heavy stats plus Fearsome plus bounce effect is a Catch-22 situation because you're forced into blocking with higher attack followers, which in turn makes the follower more likely to bounce.
Having considered that point now, I do agree that the Fearsome keyword is kind of problematic. Though I stand by my disagreement on the burn rounding up/down, because again, if you're losing to this card purely from the burn alone, you were probably dead anyway.
You usually draw one card per turn, so your hand becomes empty pretty fast. So if you trade the board, the return value of Ledros is immense, because now you have 2 cards next turn to play from hand while your opponent has only 1. Also if you draw a spell, you can spend 2-5 mana instead of 2, depending on your extra mana. If on the other hand the enemy draws a spell, Ledros presents a vicious threat to his life. Most cards that would draw you extra stuff, are not suited to do anything against Ledros, because you have to pay highly for extra draws (shadow assasin and avarosan sentry cannot even block ledros) and the best drawing card is glimpse beyond, which is mostly run by aggro decks.
Next is Ledros rewards aggro decks for the enemy to have the right answers. Let us assume, the control player did really well and protected all 20 of his lifepoints. The reward for this is, that an 8 drop can instantly remove 10 of the well-protected life points and in case the mobilization mark is on the side of the ledros player, attack for potential 8 other hit points. The enemy cannot block it with weak creatures so he has to sacrifice a bigger creature or use a spell. Iconically, that is the point, that you pointed out the most, but in my oppinion is the least problematic. A control player should not have that many creatures of small size or if he has, they should be impactful in some way (otherwise we would not talk about control). Even more ironic is, that that is the good case. If the contol player manages to only protect 15 or only 5 life points and a stabilizing board, then Ledros proves as even more dangerous. The only situation Ledros seems pretty useless is against a sucessful aggro. He may be strong but he cannot block all attackers. Other than that, you have to run a cleanse (very situational card) or some freeze- she who wanders combo (13 Mana).
Ledros Statline is 2 higher in both attack and defense in comparison to Ren Shadowblade and one mayor difference is, that Ledros is an immediate threat, while Ren Shadowblade only has future effects. An 8/6 with an effect to set your Hp to 10 (maximum) is immediate lethal threat. Especially in the Later game where you have some removal, which would completly counter Ren, but not Ledros. Also Ren Shadowblade gets pretty much destroyed by cards that profit from the death of your own stuff (like...again... Rhasa). Also if you and your enemy already have 2-3 cards on the field Ren loses value, because the units on the board are not affected at all. With Ledros I am glad to attack/trade every turn I can, while Ren is card that needs to be protected to be useful. Ren is a card of the type " If you win, win more". Ledros is a gamechanger. That is why Ledros is run in every shadowisland deck (which to my experience is the most used faction) and Ren is as often seen as a unicorn (although Ionia is popular faction as well).
Ledros is one of the reasons that there are no really good contol decks out. It is simply more rewarding to play aggro spiderlings, outdraw your enemy with glimpse beyond and in case of Lategame have Ledros as standalone to deal with the rest of the enemy life.
I would have much less problems with Ledros if he was a card, that would only be good in control decks, which are the only decks that should have a card of his effect in deck. Ledors should reward a control player for surviving and not give aggro/midrange another tool to finish the game.
There are not many cards that have this much unconditional power in the game at all and especially not at this time. The best comparision in my oppinion is Anivia. Anivia is a 7 drop with 2/4 and the relatively unconditional effect to deal 1 damage to every enemy when attacking. Anivia can level up upon becoming awakened, becoming a 3/5 with 2 damge to everything every attack. Also when Anivia dies she becomes an egg 0/2 and at the start of every turn if awakened, she turns back into the 3/5. So Anivia is easier to remove than Ledros and has a much weaker statline. If you play her before turn 10, you risk to lose her for nothing. And she rewards you with power after turn 10 especially power to deal with the aggro and midrange board.
So in comparison, Anivia needs 2 turns longer to be useful, has much less of an immidiate threat (although in the long run she can take over your board consistantly), can be contested easier than ledros. since her effect requires her to attack, you can kill her once by blocking and then with a spell, which is not card efficient but adequate for a lategame card, which is a brick for 9 consecutive turns. For her strong effect she hs to pay with a waek statline.
You usually draw one card per turn, so your hand becomes empty pretty fast. So if you trade the board, the return value of Ledros is immense, because now you have 2 cards next turn to play from hand while your opponent has only 1. Also if you draw a spell, you can spend 2-5 mana instead of 2, depending on your extra mana. If on the other hand the enemy draws a spell, Ledros presents a vicious threat to his life. Most cards that would draw you extra stuff, are not suited to do anything against Ledros, because you have to pay highly for extra draws (shadow assasin and avarosan sentry cannot even block ledros) and the best drawing card is glimpse beyond, which is mostly run by aggro decks.
Next is Ledros rewards aggro decks for the enemy to have the right answers. Let us assume, the control player did really well and protected all 20 of his lifepoints. The reward for this is, that an 8 drop can instantly remove 10 of the well-protected life points and in case the mobilization mark is on the side of the ledros player, attack for potential 8 other hit points. The enemy cannot block it with weak creatures so he has to sacrifice a bigger creature or use a spell. Iconically, that is the point, that you pointed out the most, but in my oppinion is the least problematic. A control player should not have that many creatures of small size or if he has, they should be impactful in some way (otherwise we would not talk about control). Even more ironic is, that that is the good case. If the contol player manages to only protect 15 or only 5 life points and a stabilizing board, then Ledros proves as even more dangerous. The only situation Ledros seems pretty useless is against a sucessful aggro. He may be strong but he cannot block all attackers. Other than that, you have to run a cleanse (very situational card) or some freeze- she who wanders combo (13 Mana).
Ledros Statline is 2 higher in both attack and defense in comparison to Ren Shadowblade and one mayor difference is, that Ledros is an immediate threat, while Ren Shadowblade only has future effects. An 8/6 with an effect to set your Hp to 10 (maximum) is immediate lethal threat. Especially in the Later game where you have some removal, which would completly counter Ren, but not Ledros. Also Ren Shadowblade gets pretty much destroyed by cards that profit from the death of your own stuff (like...again... Rhasa). Also if you and your enemy already have 2-3 cards on the field Ren loses value, because the units on the board are not affected at all. With Ledros I am glad to attack/trade every turn I can, while Ren is card that needs to be protected to be useful. Ren is a card of the type " If you win, win more". Ledros is a gamechanger. That is why Ledros is run in every shadowisland deck (which to my experience is the most used faction) and Ren is as often seen as a unicorn (although Ionia is popular faction as well).
Ledros is one of the reasons that there are no really good contol decks out. It is simply more rewarding to play aggro spiderlings, outdraw your enemy with glimpse beyond and in case of Lategame have Ledros as standalone to deal with the rest of the enemy life.
I would have much less problems with Ledros if he was a card, that would only be good in control decks, which are the only decks that should have a card of his effect in deck. Ledors should reward a control player for surviving and not give aggro/midrange another tool to finish the game.
There are not many cards that have this much unconditional power in the game at all and especially not at this time. The best comparision in my oppinion is Anivia. Anivia is a 7 drop with 2/4 and the relatively unconditional effect to deal 1 damage to every enemy when attacking. Anivia can level up upon becoming awakened, becoming a 3/5 with 2 damge to everything every attack. Also when Anivia dies she becomes an egg 0/2 and at the start of every turn if awakened, she turns back into the 3/5. So Anivia is easier to remove than Ledros and has a much weaker statline. If you play her before turn 10, you risk to lose her for nothing. And she rewards you with power after turn 10 especially power to deal with the aggro and midrange board.
So in comparison, Anivia needs 2 turns longer to be useful, has much less of an immidiate threat (although in the long run she can take over your board consistantly), can be contested easier than ledros. since her effect requires her to attack, you can kill her once by blocking and then with a spell, which is not card efficient but adequate for a lategame card, which is a brick for 9 consecutive turns. For her strong effect she hs to pay with a waek statline.