Targon's Champions may need a slight tweak but most of them (if not all) are already at a good place right now. Taric sees play, Diana sees play, Leona sees play, Aurelion Sol sees play. They're not busted but they're still very decent plays and are easy to level. It will take a bit more time to see where things really are.
I agree with Fenrir -- all the Targon champs are seeing a high amount of play right now and none of them are outright bad, so its hard to justify any buffs this early.
The only new champ I'm really disappointed in is Nocturne. He's got a solid spot as a partner for Diana, but outside of that niche role it is really hard to build a deck for him. His Play ability is basically an inferior version of Sejuani's, his L2 passive requires multiple nightfall units which is very difficult without splashing Targon, and if you do include Targon you might as well just go back to a Diana + Nocturne build.
I actually test drove this evening with the above suggestions -- pretty neat, I think I went 4-3.
I'm not sold on Wayfinder. It did hit nice a few times, but it also wiffed once and one time it gave me a Flower Child when I didn't have anything to buff it.
Relentless Pursuit is definitely awesome -- I think I closed a couple of games around Round 5 thanks to it.
Windfarer Hatchling closed out a game
Twin Disciplines was clutch more often than I expected. I ran the full 3x by accident, but in the end I wasn't regretting it
I don't think it's as consistent as the Lulu-Shen variant gaining popularity, but it does have a nice feel to it.
I emphasize with your grief, FishFacE. I still remember struggling to cobble together competitive F2P decks in open beta, and I imagine it's only gotten worse as more cards have been added. At the same time, though, I do want to see the overall power level of decks rise at least a little with each expansion -- otherwise, that implies the new cards don't have a significant enough impact to justify including them over the old cards and the expansion itself is disappointing (MtG: Fallen Empires, anyone?).
If I was a new player, I would probably look to an aggressive deck that could punish a lot of the greedy value-oriented decks right now, since you know you're not going to win the long game. Specifically: I'd look to either SI + Noxus spider swarm, SI + Frejlord They Who Endure, or Ionia + anything elusives. All three of those should be able to heavy leverage the starter collection. If one of those in particular interests you let me know and I can post a decklist.
One thing we talk about in the Content Creation team is how much to focus articles for new players versus veterans. It's tricky because new players will be definition become veterans over time, and most veterans aren't interested in budget content. If you think we should be generating more budget-friendly content for Runeterra, please let us know.
I don't think anyone is saying Leona needs fixing; she's a pretty solid card.
I don't really like the Pet or House Spiders here, but I'm guessing you're depending on them as activators for Flock and Guillotine? They just seem out of place without battlecaster or crowd favorite. I would probably instead just concentrate on board-bullies. Legion Marauder has some nice synergy with your rallies; Zenith Blade would be great. Pale Cascade is close to being strictly better than Transfusion.
Regarding your Diana + Vi deck: I'd probably cut the nonessential P&Z cards and make it look more like an allegiance deck, utilizing cards like Pale Cascade and Gift Giver.
Regarding your Taric + Braum: I've had good luck with the below -- it's a mid-game board bully, which I think you need to either race greedy A-Sol decks or force aggro decks to sacrifice blockers instead of keeping their pressure on:
As for Apprehend: it feels alright. I did win a game just by using it for its stun effect, no Darius on board. It's definitely not a 3x, but its not as bad as people are thinking it will be.
Are you aware of the fact that there is already a 1 mana stun card in noxus that nobody bothers playing? If you are really into stunning a unit you should try Decisive Maneuver which can be used in combat to open a breach for overwhelm units that deals a ton of damage if it remains unanswered
Yes, I am aware of Guile but I think the gamble of a possible rally from Apprehend is worth 1 -> 2 -- especially with Thresh and The Harrowing making it easier to have a Darius on board. I admit it does feel wonky in other decks e.g. that Targon + Noxus lab deck.
I might try Decisive Maneuver in that slot. The problem is that I play this deck as a very aggressive tempo deck so spending 5 mana means missing out on playing a midrange unit, but I do like the flexibility and could see it either granting lethal or used as an emergency option to save another unit.
I just want to talk about the new targon, the latest expansion. The Targon is ruining my experience overall. I love and only play lux in LOR and I don’t think a region should make a character completely useless. Lux wasn’t even good to begin with and now she is dog shit. I’m very annoyed and unhappy. I’ve been thinking about quitting after the new expansion...
I agree with Nifty -- I think your problem is moreso that you haven't found a good updated deck for her rather than the expansion turning her to "dog s***".
Here's a pre-expansion Lux + Swain deck from 4LW and Agigas that should still work -- be forewarned, however: I tried this deck and found the skill level required a little too high for me personally.
Thanks for the criticism. I don't think I know what im doing I changed the deck but probably made it worse thanks anyway though
I actually like the changes you made! The only additions I would recommend on top of that:
Change from 3x Blessing of Targon to 2x Relentless Pursuit -- the former is value / "nice to have"; the latter will often find you lethal with all these supports
Now that we're in Demacia, change 3x Pix! to 3x War Chefs -- Pix is low-key awful even without wayfinder, and War Chefs is good enough to run even in decks without support synergies
3x Herald of Spring to 3x Fuzzy Caretaker -- for this deck you'll value +3 attack so much more than lifesteal, plus it will help flatten out your curve a little
Cut Twin Disciplines from 3x to 2x -- we don't want too many reactive cards -- and then with this slot plus the opened Blessing's slot, add 2x Windfarer Hatchling to give some game-closing options
In fairness to Vincent, the rewards for playing on ladder aren't that compelling - who really needs another token?
Honestly: I play Normal ~10x more often than Ranked. As pointed out there's no tangible reward for climbing ladder, and I find the opponents more congenial.
In general, I think you need to decide what your deck wants to be:
An synergy-driven tempo deck,
An elusive aggro/combo deck,
An elusive midrange deck, or
A wavefinder combo deck
For #1: you're probably taking out your weaker bodies (Porofly, Conspirator, Wavefinder, Herald) and replacing them with cards like Mentor of the Stones and Flower Child.
For #2: I think you want to shuck Targon entirely and go for an emoosive deck with Greathorn Companion and Relentless Pursuit. Let me know if you'd like me to link such a decklist.
For #3: you'll want to extend your curve to look more like old-school elusive -- e.g., include Windfarer Hatchling
For #4: I think you want to make an Encroaching Shadows deck circa Nolagold's theorcraft below.
Cut 3x Hush for 1-2x Whimsy!. Remember that if your opponent's deck has more late-game value than yours, you really want to minimize the amount of reactive cards, especially ones that might only produce a stalemate
I played around with it some this evening and had fun. The only card I'm not sold on is Imperial Demolitionist: I get that its a reasonably-stat'ed 2-drop that also chips in 2 almost-free nexus damage, but without the wombo-combo of pre-nerf Disciple it feels underwhelming. I might try experimenting with Reckless Trifarian or Legion Marauder in its place.
As for Apprehend: it feels alright. I did win a game just by using it for its stun effect, no Darius on board. It's definitely not a 3x, but its not as bad as people are thinking it will be.
I think 2x Hush is fine -- 3x would definitely be too much, and 1x will be a "sometimes it's there when you need it and sometimes it's not" condition.
Ideally 3x Vi, but I imagine you're short on crafting resources. And I would probably change from 2x Vault Breaker to 2x Zenith Blade, possibly 3x if you can find a spot.
If you were just trying to figure out if it is worth including Invoke cards into your deck: the answer is probably "yes" -- they seem quite successful.
rezing braum is only good in very select situations.
Agreed. The one really nice thing is that now with Braum 2.0, you're almost guaranteed to get a free 3/3 Mighty Poro along with him (the rez'ed copy totally restarts the count), and that can often be relevant.
Not sure if you were soliciting feedback or not, but in case you were: the 3x Augmented Experimenter seems a bit much to me -- I know the redraw is nice, but he's fairly expensive for such an expensive deck and most Jinx decklists I've seen cut him entirely. Consider reducing to 1x or 2x and adding Hush in its place -- it can be such a clutch card!
I agree with Fenrir -- all the Targon champs are seeing a high amount of play right now and none of them are outright bad, so its hard to justify any buffs this early.
The only new champ I'm really disappointed in is Nocturne. He's got a solid spot as a partner for Diana, but outside of that niche role it is really hard to build a deck for him. His Play ability is basically an inferior version of Sejuani's, his L2 passive requires multiple nightfall units which is very difficult without splashing Targon, and if you do include Targon you might as well just go back to a Diana + Nocturne build.
Mogwai attempted to make Pix! work so you don't have to.
If you have some Lulu but no Shen, you might be more interested in pairing her with Zed since you received at least 2 free. Here's a deck from Swim:
I actually test drove this evening with the above suggestions -- pretty neat, I think I went 4-3.
I don't think it's as consistent as the Lulu-Shen variant gaining popularity, but it does have a nice feel to it.
I emphasize with your grief, FishFacE. I still remember struggling to cobble together competitive F2P decks in open beta, and I imagine it's only gotten worse as more cards have been added. At the same time, though, I do want to see the overall power level of decks rise at least a little with each expansion -- otherwise, that implies the new cards don't have a significant enough impact to justify including them over the old cards and the expansion itself is disappointing (MtG: Fallen Empires, anyone?).
If I was a new player, I would probably look to an aggressive deck that could punish a lot of the greedy value-oriented decks right now, since you know you're not going to win the long game. Specifically: I'd look to either SI + Noxus spider swarm, SI + Frejlord They Who Endure, or Ionia + anything elusives. All three of those should be able to heavy leverage the starter collection. If one of those in particular interests you let me know and I can post a decklist.
One thing we talk about in the Content Creation team is how much to focus articles for new players versus veterans. It's tricky because new players will be definition become veterans over time, and most veterans aren't interested in budget content. If you think we should be generating more budget-friendly content for Runeterra, please let us know.
Good luck!
I don't think anyone is saying Leona needs fixing; she's a pretty solid card.
I don't really like the Pet or House Spiders here, but I'm guessing you're depending on them as activators for Flock and Guillotine? They just seem out of place without battlecaster or crowd favorite. I would probably instead just concentrate on board-bullies. Legion Marauder has some nice synergy with your rallies; Zenith Blade would be great. Pale Cascade is close to being strictly better than Transfusion.
After I wrote the above, I happened across this Karma + Lux deck from Agigas just updated for CotM:
Rely on Tasty Faefolk and Valor + Radiant Guardian to stall, then get the wombo-combo out and start double-Final Sparking.
Regarding your Diana + Vi deck: I'd probably cut the nonessential P&Z cards and make it look more like an allegiance deck, utilizing cards like Pale Cascade and Gift Giver.
Regarding your Taric + Braum: I've had good luck with the below -- it's a mid-game board bully, which I think you need to either race greedy A-Sol decks or force aggro decks to sacrifice blockers instead of keeping their pressure on:
Yes, I am aware of Guile but I think the gamble of a possible rally from Apprehend is worth 1 -> 2 -- especially with Thresh and The Harrowing making it easier to have a Darius on board. I admit it does feel wonky in other decks e.g. that Targon + Noxus lab deck.
I might try Decisive Maneuver in that slot. The problem is that I play this deck as a very aggressive tempo deck so spending 5 mana means missing out on playing a midrange unit, but I do like the flexibility and could see it either granting lethal or used as an emergency option to save another unit.
Are you getting out-burned by aggro? If not: I'd recommend switching your 2x Spirit's Refuge for Riposte or even Relentless Pursuit.
Lul I feel like I'm advising everyone to run 2x Relentless Pursuit, but it honestly is such a nutty spell.
I agree with Nifty -- I think your problem is moreso that you haven't found a good updated deck for her rather than the expansion turning her to "dog s***".
Here's a Lux + Leona Daybreak deck that helped ZeroInfinity climb to Masters last week:
Here's a pre-expansion Lux + Swain deck from 4LW and Agigas that should still work -- be forewarned, however: I tried this deck and found the skill level required a little too high for me personally.
I actually like the changes you made! The only additions I would recommend on top of that:
Honestly: I play Normal ~10x more often than Ranked. As pointed out there's no tangible reward for climbing ladder, and I find the opponents more congenial.
In general, I think you need to decide what your deck wants to be:
For #1: you're probably taking out your weaker bodies (Porofly, Conspirator, Wavefinder, Herald) and replacing them with cards like Mentor of the Stones and Flower Child.
For #2: I think you want to shuck Targon entirely and go for an emoosive deck with Greathorn Companion and Relentless Pursuit. Let me know if you'd like me to link such a decklist.
For #3: you'll want to extend your curve to look more like old-school elusive -- e.g., include Windfarer Hatchling
For #4: I think you want to make an Encroaching Shadows deck circa Nolagold's theorcraft below.
More specifically:
I played around with it some this evening and had fun. The only card I'm not sold on is Imperial Demolitionist: I get that its a reasonably-stat'ed 2-drop that also chips in 2 almost-free nexus damage, but without the wombo-combo of pre-nerf Disciple it feels underwhelming. I might try experimenting with Reckless Trifarian or Legion Marauder in its place.
As for Apprehend: it feels alright. I did win a game just by using it for its stun effect, no Darius on board. It's definitely not a 3x, but its not as bad as people are thinking it will be.
I think 2x Hush is fine -- 3x would definitely be too much, and 1x will be a "sometimes it's there when you need it and sometimes it's not" condition.
Ideally 3x Vi, but I imagine you're short on crafting resources. And I would probably change from 2x Vault Breaker to 2x Zenith Blade, possibly 3x if you can find a spot.
You will never see them in deckbuilder since deckbuilder is only for collectible cards and celestial cards are by definition not collectible.
If you are wanted to peruse them, they are in the card library as Targon cards. You could go here: https://outof.cards/legends-of-runeterra/cards/?region=targon&rarity=7
If you were just trying to figure out if it is worth including Invoke cards into your deck: the answer is probably "yes" -- they seem quite successful.
Agreed. The one really nice thing is that now with Braum 2.0, you're almost guaranteed to get a free 3/3 Mighty Poro along with him (the rez'ed copy totally restarts the count), and that can often be relevant.
Here's your Singular Will deck -- Winding God tied 5th place with it at Friday's Reckoning tourney:
Congrats on homebrewing a successful deck!
Not sure if you were soliciting feedback or not, but in case you were: the 3x Augmented Experimenter seems a bit much to me -- I know the redraw is nice, but he's fairly expensive for such an expensive deck and most Jinx decklists I've seen cut him entirely. Consider reducing to 1x or 2x and adding Hush in its place -- it can be such a clutch card!