Some of the interactions in LoR aren't....let's say as refined as they should be. One of those being how people play and interact with Elusive creatures.
I kept thinking "well why didn't they just make it like Hearthstone's elusives, where they can't be targeted by spells" but then I realized that in a game where certain units can block, elusives in Hearthstone are like "anti removal". But Elusives in LoR are the opposite, they can't be blocked except by other elusives...
So then I thought. Well...that kind of makes them more like Hearthstone's stealth, but again...stealth isn't really a mechanic in LoR and it's not quite the same.
LoR is about a game where "ANY" unit can block....elusives requiring OTHER elusives to block makes no sense. It either promotes a meta of nothing but elusives, or nothing but removal. Neither of which is healthy. If a card dictates the meta that much there's obviously a problem.
Then I had a fantastic idea. Legends of Runeterra already has Quick Attack, which makes a unit on offense essentially able to get a free attack (stipulations obviously not considered here for brevity).
What if the Elusive mechanic was reworked into the opposite of quick attack. Kinda like "Quick Defense" Instead of Elusives requiring other elusives to block. Any card with quick attack is generally better on offense than defense. What if Elusive cards were better on DEFENSE instead of offense. Elusive could be reworked into something like "the first damage or spell this round is dodged". Meaning that an elusive card on offense would be able to be blocked by ANY unit (no longer requiring other elusives) but on defense it would not take any damage.
However, things like quick attack or double attack (Lucian/Senna) could bypass elusive. So in order to kill an elusive unit, you have to force them to use it on offense, or you have to use a "ping" type spell (like Mystic shot for example).
It would work similar to barrier in that sense, but barrier can be used both offensively/defensively, where Elusive would be a defensive only mechanic to be the opposite of quick attack.
Of course with all of this occurring in this hypothetical scenario, Elusive would become a much better Armor mechanic (which IMO is a crappy mechanic that hardly anyone uses, it rarely ever helps and probably needs to be reworked or buffed itself, or alternatively allow the Tough mechanic to stack...)
Another interesting thing about Maiev, she doesn't work well with Charge. One time I played Leeroy Jenkins, punched my opponent for 6 damage, then put him asleep to guarantee another attack. But lo and behold two turns later Leeroy awoke and couldn't attack. I am not sure if it is suppose to work like this, but it shouldn't.
But conversely she does work with Charge - hence the Raging Worgen OTK I got hit with yesterday. For some reason the code interprets that spell as "wake up without any sleeping sickness" so it can hit face immediately regardless of the actual spell text.
I also tried to use her to keep a dormant minion asleep for another 2 turns to delay its wake-up, but alas that does not work.
I just built an OTK deck featuring Raging Worgen, Maiev Shadowsong, and Charge alongside some buffs and Bloodsworn Mercenary. I played the Worgen, gave it Charge, then put it to sleep. When he woke up he kept the buff and still had Charge, and he could go face. But the copies I summoned with the Mercenary couldn't go face. Weird.
Seems pretty normal actually. You played Worgen on a previous turn, gave it Charge, and put it to sleep.
Charge has two features.
-Give a friendly minion Charge.
-Minion can't attack face this turn. Keyword here is THIS TURN.
Worgen Goes to sleep.
Wakes up 2 turns later Still has charge. But it was played 2 turns ago so code says "good to go buddy, you go face all day!"
You play bloodsworn merc. Copies were just summoned this turn. Due to the way charge (the buff card) is coded, they can immediately attack, but they can't go face because the copies haven't waited a turn.
As an addendum: While I applaud ya'lls creativity. Gonna be completely frank for a second...
Why are you trying to abuse charge into OTKs? You do realize that blizzard is trying to kill charge (the mechanic, not the card)...right? It's a mechanic that has created way too many problems, the cards it's been associated with have either gotten nerfed into oblivion or been hall of famed. It's clear as daylight that rush is the replacement to charge, the younger balanced brother of charge.
If by some chance this Charge OTK stuff becomes even SLIGHTLY relevant, the only thing you're going to succeed in doing is either getting those associated cards either nerfed, HoF'd or outright reworked.
It reminds me of the saying "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" (i.e. Blizzard)
The goal of nerfs is to make the class playable without being oppressive. Nerfs are not supposed to take a class or card and make it "dumpster tier" to the point that you never see them again, just managable.
Increasing mana costs for a lot of the cards DOES inhibit the ability to combo with them. Altrius and Kael are going to be heavily impacted by having mana costs increased by 1. It means it's less likely to be able to be combod. It also means that Kael can no longer be combod with 2 cost spells (6+2+2) and will now need discounts or 1 cost spells to combo. In short Kael moving from 6->7 mana is HUGE as it limits what spells can be combod with him naturally. Same thing goes for Altrius, to a lesser extent. Moving cost from 3->4 means that it has less combo potential on the same turn.
Really happy to see Sac Pact no longer target enemy Demons. Now players can play Jaraxxus without auto-losing against highlander decks.
Emphasis on "auto."
You do realize that the REAL reason they nerfed it was because they didn't want it being used as a 0 cost free easy removal against Demon Hunter's big demons. No longer being able to target Jarraxus is maybe the reason they cited in the AMA blog but the fact it took them 6 years to change this? RIGHT WHEN demons are now being played left and right? Sorry but no. The real reason is that Sac Pact was a niche tech card prior to DH release. After DH release it became a core tech/removal against any Demon Hunter matchup making the Warlock Vs DH matchup favored for the warlock.
But yes, now people can play Jarraxus without auto losing.
Not sure why you got downvoted, but I agree. This feels very heavy handed and I'm worried about a fresh fun new class getting smacked into oblivion. Unless DH is going to get future tools to help them build decks that aren't just "me go face" this doesn't feel like it's helping anything other than the whining masses who can't figure out how to build decks to counter DH.
Thanks, that actually helps. And it does make the situation a bit more bearable if there's a small possibility of allowing people to start at level 58 on a BC server. To me that's probably the best situation, it creates an even playing field for everyone to start fresh without having to grind 1-60.
Seems like you're quite passionate about it as well. I think your statement that you "have to unconditionally love which I hate" is spot on though. It's such a immersive and well polished MMO but at the same time I can't help but feel that it's like watching a child grow up, and then realizing that your child didn't turn out how you expect. You still love them, but it's not the same.
Specifically regarding classic-expansion content. At what point does blizzard feasibly stop the re-release train? I always said that Wrath was the peak of WoW (both in terms of it's core demographic, popularity, peak concurrent subscribers and it's ability to create good content that didn't completely obviate the systems that it had developed prior). I mean, I don't think it's feasible for Blizzard to just re-release all expansions. There has to be a stopping point. I feel fairly confident that they will release Burning Crusade though. (Just look at Hearthstone and WoW...*in case of emergency, re-release BC content*)
On a side note, when did they send out a survey regarding TBC? To whom? Was it random subscribers? (I was unsubbed for the past 3-4 months).
On a personal note, I still feel unsure about playing Vanilla to "fast track" my way through TBC. The class I'm looking forward to the most is horde paladins (i.e. blood elfs) and there's no way to fast track that other than hording gold and possible materials considering I'll have to level from 1-60 before I can even start the BC content.
As for other classes, as mentioned in my OP, I've considered leveling some alts in preparation for an eventual TBC release, but playing WoW casually is never something I've been great at. Many times I'll get messages from randoms or even friends to join a dungeon or raid. Joining a dungeon in Vanilla can be as little as an hour commitment (in the case of a dungeon like Scarlet Monastery) or can be a multi hour commitment (in the case of LBRS or BRD). Conversely, even raiding casually can end up being more of a time sink than you like. While there are guilds who can clear the newly released ZG in an hour or two, there are going to be guilds who can't clear half of it in 3 hours.
TBC raids and dungeons felt more like appropriate bite sized chunks, which is partly why I love the expansion. Personally I feel very dichotic about the situation, torn between my "love hate relationship" with the game, and my ability to play it casually in a mindset of "walk away". But when you've done the same leveling grinding multiple times in the past. The idea of leveling with no "end goal" other than "prepare for TBC" can create some pretty exhausting burnout, but time-investment wise and mentally.
I feel like I'm ranting, but know what I mean Flux?
Addendum: My final issue with WoW currently is playerbase. I'm currently on Mankirk, a USEast PvE server with a very very high population. So much so that Org feels crowded. The only other US East PvE realms available are Ashkandi and Windseeker. Both with VERY low populations. I don't like overpopulated servers, and there's been queues lately, but there aren't any free transfers going on from Mankirk right now, and to top it off I don't want to force my friend to transfer either, possibly to a server that may die off before TBC releases (ashkandi and windseeker both have about 4000 less horde players than Mankirk.
As someone who played on private servers in the past, I don't mind small populations. You manage just fine without having thousands of players online at the same time, but it does pose a problem both perception wise, and logistically.
Thanks for the advice Kova. My only issue is that my friend knows I like TBC. He prefers vanilla over other expansions. I prefer BC/Wrath over vanilla.
Thing is, I keep getting this "FOMO". Going back and not raiding feels like a "well what's the point then". I already have level 60 shaman with decent MC level gear. I stopped playing before they released BWL, but apparently BWL has been out for a few months now and they just released ZG last night.
I logged on last night to say hi to my buddy and the idea of not raiding ZG (one of the few raids I truly enjoyed) was disenfranchising, in addition I got this feeling of "missing out on everything for the last few months" along with the realization that every time I take a break, both recently and back in the day....it always created this sense of "I'll never catch up" which turned into me just quickly re-quitting again.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that once I take a break, it feels like I can't catchup to "others" and then I feel like it's pointless to play the game. (It's almost like the inverse of the sunk cost fallacy if that makes any sense)
Thanks Nightmare, yea ultimately I guess I need to just find a reason to either play, or not to play. And if I don't truly enjoy it, not to force myself to do it and find something else productive to do with my time.
The only caveat is that I enjoy playing WoW to an extent, it's just that committing to a dungeon in the past built up some tension with my relationship. My GF was always understanding that I was a gamer (she isn't). But when I started doing dungeons that took 1-2 hours, or raiding that took 2-4 hours, it definitely put a strain on our relationship. As I recall raiding/dungeons were parsed down in BC and trash was taken out to favor more mechanically complex encounters. Part of the reason BC held a special place was that most dungeons could be completed in an hour, and most of the time raiding only took 1-2 hours if you knew what you were doing. (Also the fact that a lot of the early raids were relatively short and didn't take long to complete (gruul, maggy, kara, and to a lesser extent TK)
Anyhow guess I have some introspection to do to determine if it's healthy to try and continue playing or not.
So the title may be confusing but it's kinda relevant, and I thought it'd be funny to use a song lyric from one of the old Tom n Jerry episodes I recall...
Anyhow, here's my dilemma. I was a young 20 something back when WoW originally released. Played it from Vanilla---> Wrath of the Lich King. Quit shortly into Wrath due to feeling like I was lost in the game at times, and after taking a break felt so far behind that I could "never catch up".
Fast forward through the last 16 years. I ended up playing vanilla, BC, and wrath private servers for small stints here and there, before they inevitably died out due to propaganda from competing private servers or due to C&D orders (i.e. shut down).
As of 2019, played classic wow at it's re-release (re-launch?) with a friend. I was the one to convince him to play. Then in December of 2019 had some person issues I had to take care of and deemed it was necessary to cancel my sub and take a break for awhile. Now here we are. Friend is wondering if I'll ever come back. He isn't pressuring me, but I told him I'd been thinking about it the past few months.
The problem: I don't really like classic wow. Yes I enjoy it more than say current wow. But if I'm being truthful, the class balance, itemization, etc was horrible in vanilla. I don't want the super-heroes of modern wow where every player is the savior of the alliance/horde and can swarms of enemies with a snap of their fingers...but I also don't want vanilla wow where itemization is crap, your player looks like Joker on laundry day, and all that.
The problem part 2: My favorite expansion is BC. I love the theme, the atmosphere, the quality of life updates, the flying mounts, the gear. Everything. Everything in BC was just way better. Ultimately I was honest with myself and the only reason I played Classic WoW and encouraged my friend to play it, was in the hopes that some day Blizzard would release "Classic BC" and I'd be able to relive that time period again.
The thing is...We are at LEAST 1 year away, if not longer....before that is a even a smidge of a reality. And I'm growing bored with the games I'm playing (Teamfight Tactics, Legends of Runeterra, Hearthstone, some Diablo3 here and there...)
The problem part3: Part of the reason I took a break from classic wow in December was because of job issues and stability in my relationship. Both have been resolved now and things are much better...but now I'm afraid that the one thing that enticed me (raiding, doing dungeons, etc....waiting for BC) isn't actually feasible.
Even if I don't raid (a 2-4 hour commitment once or twice a week) dungeons in Vanilla don't hold the same attention as BC. Secondly, I thought well I could farm gold, just casually do dungeons, level alts, etc in the meantime but there's not a ton of fun replayability just dungeoning in vanilla for me over and over again on multiple alts. Lastly my favorite class was a Blood Elf paladin, so leveling alts doesn't do much for me because my main in BC is gonna have to be re-rolled/start fresh as it is.
So my conundrum is: Should I even try to play classic WoW in the hopes that BC Classic ever comes around? Am I living too much in the past (I guess you could say others who play classic are living in the past as well...) Just looking for some advice on what to do, and how to move forward being a 30-something person and realizing that I can't necessarily commit the same amount of time that I used to when I was 20, and not sure how to enjoy WoW when the one thing in WoW I really enjoyed but hated the extensive time commitment to was raiding...
It's a comparison between the classes. People act like DH is uncounterable, it's not. DH falls hard against rez priest and Big Druid.
People act like DH is some new overly aggressive class, it's not. Hunter has been around for ages. My point is *exactly* that. Hunter flies under the radar all the time.
If you aren't seeing my point and furthermore are just attempting to strawman my efforts of showcasing the similarities between the two and instead attacking my argument style instead of replying with any sort of stats or opinion of your own, then I don't think we really have anything more to discuss.
There's an old saying "assume the best intentions of those who engage in discourse with you. Respond to the STRONGEST possible argument that they would present, not the weakest...otherwise you are talking past each other, not to each other."
Your math is correct but the scenarios you postulated aren't. A card showcasing a high winrate doesn't mean that it's always played, only that when it's played it produces a higher winrate.
Hunters card produce the SAME winrate as Priestess of Fury.
Don't believe me, here are the statistics. (as of 4/15/2020 on HSreplay)
Priestess of Fury
67.0% - Number of Decks it's in
56.6% - Deck winrate
520,000 - # of times played
55.9% - Card played winrate
Imprisoned Antaen
55.0% - Number of Decks it's in
55.9% - Deck winrate
370,000 - # of times played
51.2% - Card played winrate
Now let's look at some hunter cards for comparison. We'll start off with your comparison card, phase stalker and StormHammer
StormHammer
27.7% - # of decks it's in
57.4% - Deck winrate
38,000 - # of times played
55.8% - Card played winrate
Phase Stalker
70.2% - # of decks it's in
55.6% - Deck winrate
140,000 - # of times played
53.1% - Card played winrate
So using this information what can we logical draw? First and foremost we can see that DH cards have such a higher number of played cards that the statistics for them are naturally FAR more conclusive. I mean that's how statistics work. The larger the sample size, the less uncertainty there is. Should be pretty obvious, right?
Now let's look at some interesting numbers. Priestess of Fury a 7 cost, versus stormhammer. A 3 cost. Despite stormhammer being in only 27% of decks versus PoF's very intimidating 67%, the decks that include them both sport very similar winrates, with stormhammer decks (aka dragon decks) actually having a higher winrate.
Now the card played winrate shows that they are both...yes. EQUAL. PoF has a played winrate of 55.9. Stormhammer is 55.8. This means that when the card is played, that player is favored to win. But for a dose of reality. Stormhammer can come out as early as turn 3. That meas in a hunter vs DH matchup. The hunter has had the chance to attack for 12 total damage by the time PoF comes down. That's not counting damage from hero powers, other spells/effects or minions.
Now let's look at a comparison with a card that has a much higher playrate, the Phase Stalker. Compared to Antaen.
Phase stalker has a higher card winrate than Antaen. Phase stalker is seen in almost every hunter deck (given it's 70% deck inclusion rate, I think that's a fair assumption). Despite this, both are sporting similar deck winrates, but phase stalker clearly edges out a few more percent on the card playrate.
What does this mean? Despite the personal bias people have that DH is this "trouble" class that needs serious nerfing, it's nothing more than bias. I've played as DH, and I've played against Demon Hunter. As someone who despised face hunter decks since day 1 of Hearthstone, I can assure you that DH may have a few new tools that people aren't used to, and may have more chip damage available to them late game than hunters, but they are no different than hunters are.
The stats don't lie. DH has lots of early aggression tools, but the meta has already stabilized away from Antaen and PoF. The current most popular DH deck with the highest winrate doesn't even use Antaen or PoF and eschews those high cost demons in favor of Warglaves of Azzinoth and Battlemage for more early aggression. (IMO "Tempo" isn't the proper name, it's an aggro deck if it's including that many low cost 1-3 drops but that's most likely semantics)
So in short: No. While Antaen and Pof may feel like powerhouse cards, and may feel strong, and may win some games. They are not the problem cards of DH. They are often the cards that people see and sometimes feel slightly helpless against, but they aren't "winning" the game for them.
If you're dying to Antaen's unleashed 10 damage or PoF's unleashed 6 damage. What happened to the rest of your 20 health or 24 health respectively? You died because of battlefiend's ramp damage, a frenzied felwings free cost, or a satyr's overwhelming board with chip damage.
I'm not saying DH doesn't need some nerfs or adjustments, but people are focusing on the wrong cards. This is why Felwing is going to be nerfed. It's the 2nd highest winrate card in the DH decks, despite being a neutral card.
I feel like everyone is hating on Imprisoned Antoen or Priestess of Fury because they are powerhouse cards, but honestly not many decks run them naturally right now. And as someone who likes the DH class it's gotten neutered to the point of almost obsolescence. The only deck viable in high ranks it seems is tempo (aka aggro) and maybe the OTK variant with Kael.
Honestly Imprisoned Antoen isn't even a problem BEFORE the nerfs. If by the time turn 8 rolls around and you can't figure out a way to soak 10 damage that's split, that's on YOU (the opposing player) not the card. I mean it's actually BETTER for players as a dormant minion because it can be played around somewhat. They could just change it's cost from 6-8, and make it a battlecry, and then players would have zero chance to counter it.
I'd like to see more viable decks other than aggro DH, and honestly I hope the class doesn't get nerfed.
All in all I just find it amusing because if this was Hunter, noone would be complaining but hunter throws out just as much early damage as DH yet flies under the radar all the time.
Great article. Since it was the last subject in the article I will touch on the subject matter though. I'm fine with warrior being the dumpster class for a little bit.
They saw a huge amount of play with Dr Boom Mad Genius for the year of 2019 until he was nerfed, and then recently with the un-nerfs to the card, he saw a short but high resurgance.
I won't miss hearing "This story deserves a new ending" and just conceding cause the warrior just auto-wins through fatigue and not through any real skill inherent in the deck.
It's quite ok for classes to take the back seat every once in awhile.
I just wish I could hear his music in LoR more! It'd be cool if the themed boards you can buy also had theme music (like Braums for example) to go with them in the background. I'd totally buy one (hint hint Riot).
Just here to see your reasoning after seeing the title but well, your reasoning is poorer than your statement.
Good luck on your card game life. With this consideration skills, it won't take much time for you to stop playing.
He (OP) may be wrong, and he is in this instance about a lot of things, but comments like these are COMPLETELY unnecessary. These forums do not need vitriolic and hostile comments to people, even players who make asinine assumptions about card balance.
I had an idea this morning...
Some of the interactions in LoR aren't....let's say as refined as they should be. One of those being how people play and interact with Elusive creatures.
I kept thinking "well why didn't they just make it like Hearthstone's elusives, where they can't be targeted by spells" but then I realized that in a game where certain units can block, elusives in Hearthstone are like "anti removal". But Elusives in LoR are the opposite, they can't be blocked except by other elusives...
So then I thought. Well...that kind of makes them more like Hearthstone's stealth, but again...stealth isn't really a mechanic in LoR and it's not quite the same.
LoR is about a game where "ANY" unit can block....elusives requiring OTHER elusives to block makes no sense. It either promotes a meta of nothing but elusives, or nothing but removal. Neither of which is healthy. If a card dictates the meta that much there's obviously a problem.
Then I had a fantastic idea. Legends of Runeterra already has Quick Attack, which makes a unit on offense essentially able to get a free attack (stipulations obviously not considered here for brevity).
What if the Elusive mechanic was reworked into the opposite of quick attack. Kinda like "Quick Defense" Instead of Elusives requiring other elusives to block. Any card with quick attack is generally better on offense than defense. What if Elusive cards were better on DEFENSE instead of offense. Elusive could be reworked into something like "the first damage or spell this round is dodged". Meaning that an elusive card on offense would be able to be blocked by ANY unit (no longer requiring other elusives) but on defense it would not take any damage.
However, things like quick attack or double attack (Lucian/Senna) could bypass elusive. So in order to kill an elusive unit, you have to force them to use it on offense, or you have to use a "ping" type spell (like Mystic shot for example).
It would work similar to barrier in that sense, but barrier can be used both offensively/defensively, where Elusive would be a defensive only mechanic to be the opposite of quick attack.
Of course with all of this occurring in this hypothetical scenario, Elusive would become a much better Armor mechanic (which IMO is a crappy mechanic that hardly anyone uses, it rarely ever helps and probably needs to be reworked or buffed itself, or alternatively allow the Tough mechanic to stack...)
Anyhow...just my shower thought this morning...
It's a brawl. You want planning and deck construction, play ranked it's a few clicks away.
Seems pretty normal actually. You played Worgen on a previous turn, gave it Charge, and put it to sleep.
Charge has two features.
-Give a friendly minion Charge.
-Minion can't attack face this turn. Keyword here is THIS TURN.
Worgen Goes to sleep.
Wakes up 2 turns later Still has charge. But it was played 2 turns ago so code says "good to go buddy, you go face all day!"
You play bloodsworn merc. Copies were just summoned this turn. Due to the way charge (the buff card) is coded, they can immediately attack, but they can't go face because the copies haven't waited a turn.
As an addendum: While I applaud ya'lls creativity. Gonna be completely frank for a second...
Why are you trying to abuse charge into OTKs? You do realize that blizzard is trying to kill charge (the mechanic, not the card)...right? It's a mechanic that has created way too many problems, the cards it's been associated with have either gotten nerfed into oblivion or been hall of famed. It's clear as daylight that rush is the replacement to charge, the younger balanced brother of charge.
If by some chance this Charge OTK stuff becomes even SLIGHTLY relevant, the only thing you're going to succeed in doing is either getting those associated cards either nerfed, HoF'd or outright reworked.
It reminds me of the saying "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus" (i.e. Blizzard)
The goal of nerfs is to make the class playable without being oppressive. Nerfs are not supposed to take a class or card and make it "dumpster tier" to the point that you never see them again, just managable.
Increasing mana costs for a lot of the cards DOES inhibit the ability to combo with them. Altrius and Kael are going to be heavily impacted by having mana costs increased by 1. It means it's less likely to be able to be combod. It also means that Kael can no longer be combod with 2 cost spells (6+2+2) and will now need discounts or 1 cost spells to combo. In short Kael moving from 6->7 mana is HUGE as it limits what spells can be combod with him naturally. Same thing goes for Altrius, to a lesser extent. Moving cost from 3->4 means that it has less combo potential on the same turn.
You do realize that the REAL reason they nerfed it was because they didn't want it being used as a 0 cost free easy removal against Demon Hunter's big demons. No longer being able to target Jarraxus is maybe the reason they cited in the AMA blog but the fact it took them 6 years to change this? RIGHT WHEN demons are now being played left and right? Sorry but no. The real reason is that Sac Pact was a niche tech card prior to DH release. After DH release it became a core tech/removal against any Demon Hunter matchup making the Warlock Vs DH matchup favored for the warlock.
But yes, now people can play Jarraxus without auto losing.
Not sure why you got downvoted, but I agree. This feels very heavy handed and I'm worried about a fresh fun new class getting smacked into oblivion. Unless DH is going to get future tools to help them build decks that aren't just "me go face" this doesn't feel like it's helping anything other than the whining masses who can't figure out how to build decks to counter DH.
Thanks, that actually helps. And it does make the situation a bit more bearable if there's a small possibility of allowing people to start at level 58 on a BC server. To me that's probably the best situation, it creates an even playing field for everyone to start fresh without having to grind 1-60.
Seems like you're quite passionate about it as well. I think your statement that you "have to unconditionally love which I hate" is spot on though. It's such a immersive and well polished MMO but at the same time I can't help but feel that it's like watching a child grow up, and then realizing that your child didn't turn out how you expect. You still love them, but it's not the same.
Specifically regarding classic-expansion content. At what point does blizzard feasibly stop the re-release train? I always said that Wrath was the peak of WoW (both in terms of it's core demographic, popularity, peak concurrent subscribers and it's ability to create good content that didn't completely obviate the systems that it had developed prior). I mean, I don't think it's feasible for Blizzard to just re-release all expansions. There has to be a stopping point. I feel fairly confident that they will release Burning Crusade though. (Just look at Hearthstone and WoW...*in case of emergency, re-release BC content*)
On a side note, when did they send out a survey regarding TBC? To whom? Was it random subscribers? (I was unsubbed for the past 3-4 months).
On a personal note, I still feel unsure about playing Vanilla to "fast track" my way through TBC. The class I'm looking forward to the most is horde paladins (i.e. blood elfs) and there's no way to fast track that other than hording gold and possible materials considering I'll have to level from 1-60 before I can even start the BC content.
As for other classes, as mentioned in my OP, I've considered leveling some alts in preparation for an eventual TBC release, but playing WoW casually is never something I've been great at. Many times I'll get messages from randoms or even friends to join a dungeon or raid. Joining a dungeon in Vanilla can be as little as an hour commitment (in the case of a dungeon like Scarlet Monastery) or can be a multi hour commitment (in the case of LBRS or BRD). Conversely, even raiding casually can end up being more of a time sink than you like. While there are guilds who can clear the newly released ZG in an hour or two, there are going to be guilds who can't clear half of it in 3 hours.
TBC raids and dungeons felt more like appropriate bite sized chunks, which is partly why I love the expansion. Personally I feel very dichotic about the situation, torn between my "love hate relationship" with the game, and my ability to play it casually in a mindset of "walk away". But when you've done the same leveling grinding multiple times in the past. The idea of leveling with no "end goal" other than "prepare for TBC" can create some pretty exhausting burnout, but time-investment wise and mentally.
I feel like I'm ranting, but know what I mean Flux?
Addendum: My final issue with WoW currently is playerbase. I'm currently on Mankirk, a USEast PvE server with a very very high population. So much so that Org feels crowded. The only other US East PvE realms available are Ashkandi and Windseeker. Both with VERY low populations. I don't like overpopulated servers, and there's been queues lately, but there aren't any free transfers going on from Mankirk right now, and to top it off I don't want to force my friend to transfer either, possibly to a server that may die off before TBC releases (ashkandi and windseeker both have about 4000 less horde players than Mankirk.
As someone who played on private servers in the past, I don't mind small populations. You manage just fine without having thousands of players online at the same time, but it does pose a problem both perception wise, and logistically.
Thanks for the advice Kova. My only issue is that my friend knows I like TBC. He prefers vanilla over other expansions. I prefer BC/Wrath over vanilla.
Thing is, I keep getting this "FOMO". Going back and not raiding feels like a "well what's the point then". I already have level 60 shaman with decent MC level gear. I stopped playing before they released BWL, but apparently BWL has been out for a few months now and they just released ZG last night.
I logged on last night to say hi to my buddy and the idea of not raiding ZG (one of the few raids I truly enjoyed) was disenfranchising, in addition I got this feeling of "missing out on everything for the last few months" along with the realization that every time I take a break, both recently and back in the day....it always created this sense of "I'll never catch up" which turned into me just quickly re-quitting again.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that once I take a break, it feels like I can't catchup to "others" and then I feel like it's pointless to play the game. (It's almost like the inverse of the sunk cost fallacy if that makes any sense)
Thanks Nightmare, yea ultimately I guess I need to just find a reason to either play, or not to play. And if I don't truly enjoy it, not to force myself to do it and find something else productive to do with my time.
The only caveat is that I enjoy playing WoW to an extent, it's just that committing to a dungeon in the past built up some tension with my relationship. My GF was always understanding that I was a gamer (she isn't). But when I started doing dungeons that took 1-2 hours, or raiding that took 2-4 hours, it definitely put a strain on our relationship. As I recall raiding/dungeons were parsed down in BC and trash was taken out to favor more mechanically complex encounters. Part of the reason BC held a special place was that most dungeons could be completed in an hour, and most of the time raiding only took 1-2 hours if you knew what you were doing. (Also the fact that a lot of the early raids were relatively short and didn't take long to complete (gruul, maggy, kara, and to a lesser extent TK)
Anyhow guess I have some introspection to do to determine if it's healthy to try and continue playing or not.
So the title may be confusing but it's kinda relevant, and I thought it'd be funny to use a song lyric from one of the old Tom n Jerry episodes I recall...
Anyhow, here's my dilemma. I was a young 20 something back when WoW originally released. Played it from Vanilla---> Wrath of the Lich King. Quit shortly into Wrath due to feeling like I was lost in the game at times, and after taking a break felt so far behind that I could "never catch up".
Fast forward through the last 16 years. I ended up playing vanilla, BC, and wrath private servers for small stints here and there, before they inevitably died out due to propaganda from competing private servers or due to C&D orders (i.e. shut down).
As of 2019, played classic wow at it's re-release (re-launch?) with a friend. I was the one to convince him to play. Then in December of 2019 had some person issues I had to take care of and deemed it was necessary to cancel my sub and take a break for awhile. Now here we are. Friend is wondering if I'll ever come back. He isn't pressuring me, but I told him I'd been thinking about it the past few months.
The problem: I don't really like classic wow. Yes I enjoy it more than say current wow. But if I'm being truthful, the class balance, itemization, etc was horrible in vanilla. I don't want the super-heroes of modern wow where every player is the savior of the alliance/horde and can swarms of enemies with a snap of their fingers...but I also don't want vanilla wow where itemization is crap, your player looks like Joker on laundry day, and all that.
The problem part 2: My favorite expansion is BC. I love the theme, the atmosphere, the quality of life updates, the flying mounts, the gear. Everything. Everything in BC was just way better. Ultimately I was honest with myself and the only reason I played Classic WoW and encouraged my friend to play it, was in the hopes that some day Blizzard would release "Classic BC" and I'd be able to relive that time period again.
The thing is...We are at LEAST 1 year away, if not longer....before that is a even a smidge of a reality. And I'm growing bored with the games I'm playing (Teamfight Tactics, Legends of Runeterra, Hearthstone, some Diablo3 here and there...)
The problem part3: Part of the reason I took a break from classic wow in December was because of job issues and stability in my relationship. Both have been resolved now and things are much better...but now I'm afraid that the one thing that enticed me (raiding, doing dungeons, etc....waiting for BC) isn't actually feasible.
Even if I don't raid (a 2-4 hour commitment once or twice a week) dungeons in Vanilla don't hold the same attention as BC. Secondly, I thought well I could farm gold, just casually do dungeons, level alts, etc in the meantime but there's not a ton of fun replayability just dungeoning in vanilla for me over and over again on multiple alts. Lastly my favorite class was a Blood Elf paladin, so leveling alts doesn't do much for me because my main in BC is gonna have to be re-rolled/start fresh as it is.
So my conundrum is: Should I even try to play classic WoW in the hopes that BC Classic ever comes around? Am I living too much in the past (I guess you could say others who play classic are living in the past as well...) Just looking for some advice on what to do, and how to move forward being a 30-something person and realizing that I can't necessarily commit the same amount of time that I used to when I was 20, and not sure how to enjoy WoW when the one thing in WoW I really enjoyed but hated the extensive time commitment to was raiding...
Thanks in advance!
Agreed. The gameplan of decks should be to build your deck with a few meta tech cards, not to build a deck entirely consistent of meta counters.
It's a comparison between the classes. People act like DH is uncounterable, it's not. DH falls hard against rez priest and Big Druid.
People act like DH is some new overly aggressive class, it's not. Hunter has been around for ages. My point is *exactly* that. Hunter flies under the radar all the time.
If you aren't seeing my point and furthermore are just attempting to strawman my efforts of showcasing the similarities between the two and instead attacking my argument style instead of replying with any sort of stats or opinion of your own, then I don't think we really have anything more to discuss.
There's an old saying "assume the best intentions of those who engage in discourse with you. Respond to the STRONGEST possible argument that they would present, not the weakest...otherwise you are talking past each other, not to each other."
Your math is correct but the scenarios you postulated aren't. A card showcasing a high winrate doesn't mean that it's always played, only that when it's played it produces a higher winrate.
Hunters card produce the SAME winrate as Priestess of Fury.
Don't believe me, here are the statistics. (as of 4/15/2020 on HSreplay)
Priestess of Fury
Imprisoned Antaen
Phase Stalker
Phase stalker has a higher card winrate than Antaen. Phase stalker is seen in almost every hunter deck (given it's 70% deck inclusion rate, I think that's a fair assumption). Despite this, both are sporting similar deck winrates, but phase stalker clearly edges out a few more percent on the card playrate.
What does this mean? Despite the personal bias people have that DH is this "trouble" class that needs serious nerfing, it's nothing more than bias. I've played as DH, and I've played against Demon Hunter. As someone who despised face hunter decks since day 1 of Hearthstone, I can assure you that DH may have a few new tools that people aren't used to, and may have more chip damage available to them late game than hunters, but they are no different than hunters are.
I feel like everyone is hating on Imprisoned Antoen or Priestess of Fury because they are powerhouse cards, but honestly not many decks run them naturally right now. And as someone who likes the DH class it's gotten neutered to the point of almost obsolescence. The only deck viable in high ranks it seems is tempo (aka aggro) and maybe the OTK variant with Kael.
Honestly Imprisoned Antoen isn't even a problem BEFORE the nerfs. If by the time turn 8 rolls around and you can't figure out a way to soak 10 damage that's split, that's on YOU (the opposing player) not the card. I mean it's actually BETTER for players as a dormant minion because it can be played around somewhat. They could just change it's cost from 6-8, and make it a battlecry, and then players would have zero chance to counter it.
I'd like to see more viable decks other than aggro DH, and honestly I hope the class doesn't get nerfed.
All in all I just find it amusing because if this was Hunter, noone would be complaining but hunter throws out just as much early damage as DH yet flies under the radar all the time.
Great article. Since it was the last subject in the article I will touch on the subject matter though. I'm fine with warrior being the dumpster class for a little bit.
They saw a huge amount of play with Dr Boom Mad Genius for the year of 2019 until he was nerfed, and then recently with the un-nerfs to the card, he saw a short but high resurgance.
I won't miss hearing "This story deserves a new ending" and just conceding cause the warrior just auto-wins through fatigue and not through any real skill inherent in the deck.
It's quite ok for classes to take the back seat every once in awhile.
They do? I had no idea. Is it Braum's theme though? :)
I just wish I could hear his music in LoR more! It'd be cool if the themed boards you can buy also had theme music (like Braums for example) to go with them in the background. I'd totally buy one (hint hint Riot).
He (OP) may be wrong, and he is in this instance about a lot of things, but comments like these are COMPLETELY unnecessary. These forums do not need vitriolic and hostile comments to people, even players who make asinine assumptions about card balance.
I mentioned this before as well. It's won me quite a few expedition trials.