Yasuo decks have improved but they are still beatable to aggro. I win about 70%-ish of the time. Spider swarm decks seem to eat Yasuo's lunch as they have little to deal with AoE outside of one card and they need to be below X power and have yasuo in play. From my experience yasuo decks don't like blocking, so just fill your board with six unit and open attack.
Another new forum person comes in whines about X mechanic and complains how they are getting beat by it and "it's not fair" instead of asking, "Hey this mechanic is really beating my butt in games. Can you guys help me with some strategies to overcome this?"
No, they took it away. You use to be able to select which region to log into when you were at the login screen. Since it is done automatically now, I am assuming a VPN is in place to make Riot think you are European., If not contact Riot Support to see what is going on. This sucks, I cannot play with my friends in UK now.
While it is a nice card and it can win games. If on turn 5, you commit all your mana to play that card and it gets Will of Ionia. It will basically lose you the game.
So it's a win the game or lose the game card. You will have to play it carefully and know what counters it. Also keep in mind, Overwhelm will still do damage over top of the card just like barrier. It does not prevent damage.
10/5 Overwhelm Darius attacks vs blocking 3/3 Indestructible Fiora will still deal 7 damage to your Nexus.
I think currently one of the big problems with Elusives is the Stand Alone into Monk or Zed. That seems to be taking over the meta. It's patchwork until new cards come out to solve the problem, but modifying Stand Alone's mana from 3 to 4 or changing it from Burst to Fast speed could band-aid the growing problem on the ladder. The other elusive deck is good, but it's not flooding the ladder at the moment.
I have to disagree as well. Darius is a great closer for aggro decks. Many removal spells are exhausted over the course of the relentless assault brings. A turn 6 darius open attacking into turn 7 can be a little too much to handle. If you make it to Turn 7 and you don't have your opponent under 10 at that time, aggro has likely lost the game anyways and it's no fault of Darius being weaker.
We will have to see how it plays out, but all of the OP keyword in Runeterra is just a mimic of something in MTG and MTG doesn't have this problem. They create stupidly overpowered cards that shouldn't exist *cough* Jace. But that's another topic. I think MTG doesn't have a keyword problem, because of the amount of cards they have. LoR only has 350-ish cards right now. Set 2 is going to add 120-ish from what I gather. Standard MTG has between 1400-2800 cards in circulation at any given time. Grant it many of them are completely useless, but the point being being, let's give them the chance with more cards being introduced.
Runeterra to MTG Fearsome = Fear Elusive = Flying Quick Attack (Offense Only) = First Strike Double Attack (Offense Only) = Double Strike Tough/Barrier = No keyword, but their are damage prevention mechanics. Overwhelm = Trample Lifesteal = Lifelink Challenger = Provoke
People also complain Regenerate and Last Breath were too strong. Give the game to develop we are only 12 weeks into the game and it's technically in beta still.
I think the introduction of more cards into the game will solve the elusive concern. We just have think elusive as "flying" in terms of mtg. MTG doesn't really have a single minded "flying" deck because all the colors have solutions.
White - Hard removal Blue - Bounce and counterspells black - Hard removal red - direct damage green - reach and direct damage to flying units only
His concept of a Quick Defense to block elusive units is a good idea. I'm all for this being introduced to new cards. I had similar idea in another thread, I called it Sentry, i think.
Another idea is direct damage to elusives only. I am a bit less of a fan of this idea, but it is an option.
I do have growing concern elusives are going to be worse with the new set. Scout on top Elusive on top of Rally seems like a really bad idea in the making.
Also a Deny for a unit would be nice as well. Even though I dread the concept of control players getting another tool.
Just play a good spider deck to crush Ez decks. As an aggro/midrange player. I lick my chops at Ez decks when I play aggro. The reason Ez is rising is because Bannerman is, was/kind of the best deck. Bannerman is midrange and Control beats Midrange.
Aggro beats Control Control beats Midrange Midrange beats Aggro
It is a vicious brutal cycle, Ez is the result of Elusive Midrange and Bannerman Midrange taking tier 1 status. It was natural a control deck would become the solution.
I hate control players, but I understand the necessary evil. If there were no control decks. There would be no aggro decks and the only thing you'll have is midrange. I welcome Ez's rise, because it will mean the end of bannerman and elusives.
If you keep seeing Ez deck crop up. Build a Spider or Discard burn deck and make them wish they didn't play that deck. If you want to become a good player you have to adapt.
Adapt? Seems like a kinda conceited thing "If you want to be a good player, just carbon copy known good meta decks" is what you're saying. I'd hardly quantify that as a good player. Playing a deck well, knowing when to play counters is what makes a good player. There's a reason people call certain decks "auto-pilot" decks, because they are easy to play and provide high winrates. Holistically those types of decks are....that's right..."aggro/midrange" decks. Wait...what's that you pilot? Aggro/Midrange?
I jest. I jest...but seriously. Your response coming right after Hellcopter's response...
Personal opinion: I also dislike the very existence of OTK decks, because there is nothing that can be done exept: FINISHING THE GAME BEFORE THEY WIN! Just imagine there is reaper hidden in your match whispering: You only have X turns left before you DIE!
This concept sets a timer and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent. So in order to win, its necessary to build a deck in a certain way that allows to close games before X turn, where X is the average turn the OTK assembles their combo. This limits a lot of deck build creativity and pushes many decks out of the meta. For example, one of the reasosn i believe Vladimir doesn't see any play despite many recent buffs on the archetype, its because he lacks an explosive finisher so can't beat ez wich is pretty popular right now.
I am ok with OTK existing but as a guy who likes to build OOTB decks, i would probably be happier if they didn't.
See the bolded part?
Balance. The problem is that despite LoR having MORE control over phases of the game, ways to counter players...ironically as of late I've found it LESS and LESS interactive than hearthstone. Hearthstone may have RNG filled moments, but even as a control player up against an aggro Demon Hunter deck I feel like I have a chance.
But when I'm playing a deck in LoR, if I'm up against the currently stupidly popular Shadow Isle control deck, I know there's very little chance of me winning. The problem is that you can only have 2 regions in a deck. And some regions have little or NO tools to combat certain mechanics. This isn't hearthstone where I can just include a neutral tech card if I'm having trouble with removal or a big unit, or aoe. In hearthstone you can include Big Game Hunter in your deck if your deck lacks hard removal, in LoR unless you have Vengeance and are playing a shadow isles deck, chances are your removal only comes in the form of multi card combos (think Frostbite+Shatter for Freljord) . The problem I'm starting to see is that by restricting cards to regions and not having "neutral" cards, you end up obviating entire regions during metas.
If the entire point of the game is to have fun while playing decks that interest you, being forced to play certain regions because the current meta is angled in some way, isn't fun, it's restrictive. And that is going to do two things: One it's going to disenfranchise players from joining/playing. Two even if it doesn't kill the game or playerbase, it's going to restrict creativity. Neither of those prospects is good for LoR in the long term.
I never said to "net deck", my advice as to for spoons to build a spider or discard burn deck. I agree, Good players just play "net decks", Great Players create the net decks. And yes you need to adapt. If you play one deck because you have fun with it. By all means play it and have fun, but don't come whining to the devs that your deck sucks when it falls out of meta. If I wanted him to net deck I would of told him to go build this and link a deck list.
Now you do bring up a good point of the 2 region limit. It's a hard decision whether lock at 2, 3, or no limit. My only concern and counter to your argument is if there was no region limit, you would create super cards that would show up in every deck. I think 2 is appropriate for the moment. I can see expanding it to 3 o more, as more sets, regions and cards are introduced. Including introducing concepts that encourage multi-regions like. "Play: Unit gets +1/+1 for each unique region units have on the battlefield." For this card cost 1 less for each region in your hand. I do find there is plenty of creativity in the game right now, but I do agree some regions are way more popular than others. Compare Ionia/P&Z to Frejord.
I do think for the longevity of the game, they do need to introduce cards at a faster pace. If you count the closed and this first season. We've had the same cards for nearly 16-18 weeks. If they want to keep the health of the game fresh and fun, they need to reduce the number of weeks between new cards.
While I will ignore the cheeky response of calling aggro players dumb, oh wait "auto-pilot" is what we are calling it. Control is not my play style, I do not like sitting around drawing cards and preventing the other player from play the game. But apparently my tiny aggro brain cannot understand your advance control play style concepts. Oh wait I do play them, I just don't have as much fun playing them.
I see this as a counter to removal for aggro-based decks. Think how Glimpse is used, but more damage to the face. It will be interesting if you run one over the other or both.
I think you get champions at level 16, I would race to get each of them to 16. Then rush each to the free champion wild card. Then finish the regions off. Either way you'll get there in the end, but getting champions helps build those decks. Just keep at it and make sure your weekly vault gets to min. of level 10 every week for the free champion wildcard.
Most important, have fun, the grind doesn't seem like a grind if you enjoy yourself.
If we go with the top 7-ish decks Ez-Karma Control - P&Z / Ionia (Good mix of both regions) Heimer Karma - P& Z / Ionia (Good mix of both regions again) Elusive Burn - Ionia / Demacia (Good mix of both regions) Bannerman - Demacia with a hint of Nox or Ionia Spiders Aggro - SI and Noxus Corina Control - SI and P&Z Kinkou Elusives - Ionia with a hint of Frejord
Seriously Frejord is very weak or they would appear more on the top tier lists. You might see them on the odd deck like Warmother's Control, Yasuo Control, Ashe Deck, Yetis, and Vlads, but let's face it they are just supporting. The one deck they are in top tier with. They run 2 cards, Elixir of Iron and Omen Hawk.
You also have to consider Frejord is a scaling region, you have to get to late game to win and the meta is very midrange focused right now.
Keep in mind we will likely not have access to Season Road from the moment of expansion release. If I had to guess we will need to level Bildgewater and Mount Targon to 20 before we will access the expansion. Which is nice because that will give us a boost for the new cards.
Dont even get me started on Omen Hawk, whenever i see it played against me on T1 i just want to concede. I hate that card with a passion.
Don't love it when Omen Hawk gets bounced by [Hearthstone Card (Navori Conspirator) Not Found] and replayed. Then [Hearthstone Card (Kinkou Wayfinder) Not Found] finds the other two Omen Hawks and they drop a 7/6 Zed and a 6/6 [Hearthstone Card (Kinkou Lifeblade) Not Found]
-----------
Balance-wise: I agree with Helicopter [Hearthstone Card (Glimpse Beyond) Not Found] is pretty busted if played in response. No matter the outcome. All you do is wait for the opponent to play removal. If you have no way to save it. Drop the Glimpse. You either get 2 free removals spells. Or 1 removal spell and 2 bonus cards.
Personal Hatred: [Hearthstone Card (Withering Wail) Not Found]. The Anti-Aggro card. I don't think it is unbalanced, it just annoying to play around. I hate playing aggro into Shadow Isles. So many stalling tools.
Yasuo decks have improved but they are still beatable to aggro. I win about 70%-ish of the time. Spider swarm decks seem to eat Yasuo's lunch as they have little to deal with AoE outside of one card and they need to be below X power and have yasuo in play. From my experience yasuo decks don't like blocking, so just fill your board with six unit and open attack.
Another new forum person comes in whines about X mechanic and complains how they are getting beat by it and "it's not fair" instead of asking, "Hey this mechanic is really beating my butt in games. Can you guys help me with some strategies to overcome this?"
Yeah you need to screen cap the board state. We can't guess otherwise. There's a million reason why you couldn't block.
This is absolutely nuts. I would expect more decks to be built around this crazy card combo. Nothing like rushing with 10 atk / 9 def on turn 2.
No, they took it away. You use to be able to select which region to log into when you were at the login screen. Since it is done automatically now, I am assuming a VPN is in place to make Riot think you are European., If not contact Riot Support to see what is going on. This sucks, I cannot play with my friends in UK now.
Took about 3-5 minutes for me to install the update, maybe reinstall if you are continuing to have issues.
While it is a nice card and it can win games. If on turn 5, you commit all your mana to play that card and it gets Will of Ionia. It will basically lose you the game.
So it's a win the game or lose the game card. You will have to play it carefully and know what counters it. Also keep in mind, Overwhelm will still do damage over top of the card just like barrier. It does not prevent damage.
10/5 Overwhelm Darius attacks vs blocking 3/3 Indestructible Fiora will still deal 7 damage to your Nexus.
Obliterate will work as it works on a different mechanic.
Converting this to mtg lingo. Kill = Destroy (Card is put into the graveyard), Obliterate = Exile (Card is removed from the game).
This is basically, indestructible from MTG. Creates can't get destroyed/killed or damaged. However they can be exiled/obliterated.
I think currently one of the big problems with Elusives is the Stand Alone into Monk or Zed. That seems to be taking over the meta. It's patchwork until new cards come out to solve the problem, but modifying Stand Alone's mana from 3 to 4 or changing it from Burst to Fast speed could band-aid the growing problem on the ladder. The other elusive deck is good, but it's not flooding the ladder at the moment.
Elusives cannot block non-elusive units. They can only block elusive units.
Elusives eat your heart out. This is what I was worried about, Elusives getting stronger with Set 2. This might make them overwhelming.
I have to disagree as well. Darius is a great closer for aggro decks. Many removal spells are exhausted over the course of the relentless assault brings. A turn 6 darius open attacking into turn 7 can be a little too much to handle. If you make it to Turn 7 and you don't have your opponent under 10 at that time, aggro has likely lost the game anyways and it's no fault of Darius being weaker.
We will have to see how it plays out, but all of the OP keyword in Runeterra is just a mimic of something in MTG and MTG doesn't have this problem. They create stupidly overpowered cards that shouldn't exist *cough* Jace. But that's another topic. I think MTG doesn't have a keyword problem, because of the amount of cards they have. LoR only has 350-ish cards right now. Set 2 is going to add 120-ish from what I gather. Standard MTG has between 1400-2800 cards in circulation at any given time. Grant it many of them are completely useless, but the point being being, let's give them the chance with more cards being introduced.
Runeterra to MTG
Fearsome = Fear
Elusive = Flying
Quick Attack (Offense Only) = First Strike
Double Attack (Offense Only) = Double Strike
Tough/Barrier = No keyword, but their are damage prevention mechanics.
Overwhelm = Trample
Lifesteal = Lifelink
Challenger = Provoke
People also complain Regenerate and Last Breath were too strong. Give the game to develop we are only 12 weeks into the game and it's technically in beta still.
I think the introduction of more cards into the game will solve the elusive concern. We just have think elusive as "flying" in terms of mtg. MTG doesn't really have a single minded "flying" deck because all the colors have solutions.
White - Hard removal
Blue - Bounce and counterspells
black - Hard removal
red - direct damage
green - reach and direct damage to flying units only
@Sykomyke
His concept of a Quick Defense to block elusive units is a good idea. I'm all for this being introduced to new cards. I had similar idea in another thread, I called it Sentry, i think.
Another idea is direct damage to elusives only. I am a bit less of a fan of this idea, but it is an option.
I do have growing concern elusives are going to be worse with the new set. Scout on top Elusive on top of Rally seems like a really bad idea in the making.
Also a Deny for a unit would be nice as well. Even though I dread the concept of control players getting another tool.
I never said to "net deck", my advice as to for spoons to build a spider or discard burn deck. I agree, Good players just play "net decks", Great Players create the net decks. And yes you need to adapt. If you play one deck because you have fun with it. By all means play it and have fun, but don't come whining to the devs that your deck sucks when it falls out of meta. If I wanted him to net deck I would of told him to go build this and link a deck list.
Now you do bring up a good point of the 2 region limit. It's a hard decision whether lock at 2, 3, or no limit. My only concern and counter to your argument is if there was no region limit, you would create super cards that would show up in every deck. I think 2 is appropriate for the moment. I can see expanding it to 3 o more, as more sets, regions and cards are introduced. Including introducing concepts that encourage multi-regions like. "Play: Unit gets +1/+1 for each unique region units have on the battlefield." For this card cost 1 less for each region in your hand. I do find there is plenty of creativity in the game right now, but I do agree some regions are way more popular than others. Compare Ionia/P&Z to Frejord.
I do think for the longevity of the game, they do need to introduce cards at a faster pace. If you count the closed and this first season. We've had the same cards for nearly 16-18 weeks. If they want to keep the health of the game fresh and fun, they need to reduce the number of weeks between new cards.
While I will ignore the cheeky response of calling aggro players dumb, oh wait "auto-pilot" is what we are calling it. Control is not my play style, I do not like sitting around drawing cards and preventing the other player from play the game. But apparently my tiny aggro brain cannot understand your advance control play style concepts. Oh wait I do play them, I just don't have as much fun playing them.
I see this as a counter to removal for aggro-based decks. Think how Glimpse is used, but more damage to the face. It will be interesting if you run one over the other or both.
I think you get champions at level 16, I would race to get each of them to 16. Then rush each to the free champion wild card. Then finish the regions off. Either way you'll get there in the end, but getting champions helps build those decks. Just keep at it and make sure your weekly vault gets to min. of level 10 every week for the free champion wildcard.
Most important, have fun, the grind doesn't seem like a grind if you enjoy yourself.
If we go with the top 7-ish decks
Ez-Karma Control - P&Z / Ionia (Good mix of both regions)
Heimer Karma - P& Z / Ionia (Good mix of both regions again)
Elusive Burn - Ionia / Demacia (Good mix of both regions)
Bannerman - Demacia with a hint of Nox or Ionia
Spiders Aggro - SI and Noxus
Corina Control - SI and P&Z
Kinkou Elusives - Ionia with a hint of Frejord
Seriously Frejord is very weak or they would appear more on the top tier lists. You might see them on the odd deck like Warmother's Control, Yasuo Control, Ashe Deck, Yetis, and Vlads, but let's face it they are just supporting. The one deck they are in top tier with. They run 2 cards, Elixir of Iron and Omen Hawk.
You also have to consider Frejord is a scaling region, you have to get to late game to win and the meta is very midrange focused right now.
Keep in mind we will likely not have access to Season Road from the moment of expansion release. If I had to guess we will need to level Bildgewater and Mount Targon to 20 before we will access the expansion. Which is nice because that will give us a boost for the new cards.
Don't love it when Omen Hawk gets bounced by [Hearthstone Card (Navori Conspirator) Not Found] and replayed. Then [Hearthstone Card (Kinkou Wayfinder) Not Found] finds the other two Omen Hawks and they drop a 7/6 Zed and a 6/6 [Hearthstone Card (Kinkou Lifeblade) Not Found]
-----------
Balance-wise: I agree with Helicopter [Hearthstone Card (Glimpse Beyond) Not Found] is pretty busted if played in response. No matter the outcome. All you do is wait for the opponent to play removal. If you have no way to save it. Drop the Glimpse. You either get 2 free removals spells. Or 1 removal spell and 2 bonus cards.
Personal Hatred: [Hearthstone Card (Withering Wail) Not Found]. The Anti-Aggro card. I don't think it is unbalanced, it just annoying to play around. I hate playing aggro into Shadow Isles. So many stalling tools.