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How do you beat Shadowisles Kamikazee?

Submitted 4 years, 1 month ago by

Hey folks,

New patch is out and there were many reasonable changes made which tuned down bannerman and fearsome spiders quite decently.

While I like that the meta is changing I encountered a sort of aggro deck that I have no clue how to stop:

Ephemeral burn (SI + P&Z) with Kalista and Hecarim as the Champions.

Since Kalista got buffed it is laughable easy for ephemeral decks to level her right when she is played using Haunted Relic, Shark Chariot, Used Cask Salesman or simply Hecarim and once you have flipped her she and hecarim spawn free ephemerals on attack who feed nicely into their Phantom Prankster

If you think that this sounds already quite hard to stop i got to remind you that this deck also has Mystic Shot and Get Excited! to finish you WHILE also having always the option to blow up the board with The Ruination since they dont really have a board to loose

I personally dont see a way to control this deck and it seems to me that you only can rush that deck down

I might oversee a way to stop that but thats why I'm asking you folks

 

  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 555 878 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago

    Hey folks,

    New patch is out and there were many reasonable changes made which tuned down bannerman and fearsome spiders quite decently.

    While I like that the meta is changing I encountered a sort of aggro deck that I have no clue how to stop:

    Ephemeral burn (SI + P&Z) with Kalista and Hecarim as the Champions.

    Since Kalista got buffed it is laughable easy for ephemeral decks to level her right when she is played using Haunted Relic, Shark Chariot, Used Cask Salesman or simply Hecarim and once you have flipped her she and hecarim spawn free ephemerals on attack who feed nicely into their Phantom Prankster

    If you think that this sounds already quite hard to stop i got to remind you that this deck also has Mystic Shot and Get Excited! to finish you WHILE also having always the option to blow up the board with The Ruination since they dont really have a board to loose

    I personally dont see a way to control this deck and it seems to me that you only can rush that deck down

    I might oversee a way to stop that but thats why I'm asking you folks

     

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  • OldManSanns's Avatar
    Azir 1040 924 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago

    Kalista definitely has a lot of upside potential once leveled and attacking, but she's fairly vulnerable otherwise.  Single Combat, Get Excited!, Thermo Beam Whirling Death, and roughly half the challengers take care of her nicely.  

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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 555 878 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago
    Quote From OldManSanns

    Kalista definitely has a lot of upside potential once leveled and attacking, but she's fairly vulnerable otherwise.  Single Combat, Get Excited!, Thermo Beam Whirling Death, and roughly half the challengers take care of her nicely.  

    Oh and I forgot to mention that killing Kalista wont solve your problem since this deck also uses The Rekindler to do the well known kalista loop

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  • Hellcopter's Avatar
    270 306 Posts Joined 02/09/2020
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago

    I did face this deck pre Kalista buff but bofore Rekindler and Hecarin was nerfed and i thought it performed just ok-ish. 
    Here are my thoughts:

    Pros:
    - strong early offence;
    - extremely cost-efficient nexus damage;
    - easy to swarm (blocking all its units may prove difficult);
    - good lethal range;
    - has a late game win condition that can beat control decks, despite being an aggro deck;

    Cons:
    - 0 defensive options. 
    - slower and less consistent then the average aggro deck;
    - requires some setup;
    - combos can be disrupted; 
    - too centered on Kalista being leveled;
    - Rekindler combo is powerfull but too slow for the current meta.

    How to counter as:
    1- Aggro decks: most aggro decks should not have a problem against it, as this deck loses tempo/board control when setting stuff like shark, relic and prankster. Ignore trades until either player is in lethal range, then block with everything available. 
    2- Control decks: Disrupt combos, save removals for Kalista, play a big Life Steal minion and finish the game before the Rekindler loop. Or just the old good: kill him before he can kill you. Easier said then done, i know. 

    Now lets adress the Rekloop: it requires 2 main conditions:
    1- Kalista has to level up and preferably be dead by the time Rekindler is played;
    2- Rekindler has to die before Kalista attacks;

    If those 2 conditions are met, the deck most likely will win the game. 

    You can deny the combo by either preventing Kalista from leveling up or finishing the game before T9.
    Seriously, Rekindler is a 7 mana play and it also needs to die in order to be ressurected by Kalista. It should be enough time to close the game before that happens. 
    Now, if your deck can't finish games by T9, then Ez decks are a much bigger concern.

    Hearthstone: Me vs Firebat -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NCE81owjo

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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 555 878 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago
    Quote From Hellcopter

    I did face this deck pre Kalista buff but bofore Rekindler and Hecarin was nerfed and i thought it performed just ok-ish. 
    Here are my thoughts:

    Pros:
    - strong early offence;
    - extremely cost-efficient nexus damage;
    - easy to swarm (blocking all its units may prove difficult);
    - good lethal range;
    - has a late game win condition that can beat control decks, despite being an aggro deck;

    Cons:
    - 0 defensive options. 
    - slower and less consistent then the average aggro deck;
    - requires some setup;
    - combos can be disrupted; 
    - too centered on Kalista being leveled;
    - Rekindler combo is powerfull but too slow for the current meta.

    How to counter as:
    1- Aggro decks: most aggro decks should not have a problem against it, as this deck loses tempo/board control when setting stuff like shark, relic and prankster. Ignore trades until either player is in lethal range, then block with everything available. 
    2- Control decks: Disrupt combos, save removals for Kalista, play a big Life Steal minion and finish the game before the Rekindler loop. Or just the old good: kill him before he can kill you. Easier said then done, i know. 

    Now lets adress the Rekloop: it requires 2 main conditions:
    1- Kalista has to level up and preferably be dead by the time Rekindler is played;
    2- Rekindler has to die before Kalista attacks;

    If those 2 conditions are met, the deck most likely will win the game. 

    You can deny the combo by either preventing Kalista from leveling up or finishing the game before T9.
    Seriously, Rekindler is a 7 mana play and it also needs to die in order to be ressurected by Kalista. It should be enough time to close the game before that happens. 
    Now, if your deck can't finish games by T9, then Ez decks are a much bigger concern.

    About the cons you brought up:

    0 defensive options is not entirely right since Used Cask Salesman and Haunted Relic also work for a 1 turn chumbblock what can definetely matter

    While it is slower I would not aggre with it being less consistant. 

    It needs an amount of setup that is clearly doable

    You dont have to play around Kalista its just an strong option to win the game. This deck has more than one way to overwhelm you on board (especially Hecarim should not be underestimated in ephemeral decks)

    While it is certainly true that The Rekindler combo is not likely to go off its not by any means the ONE goal of the deck that it has to reach, its just an strong lategame option 

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  • Hellcopter's Avatar
    270 306 Posts Joined 02/09/2020
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago

    0 defensive options is not entirely right since Used Cask Salesman and Haunted Relic also work for a 1 turn chumbblock what can definetely matter
    As a general rule, at the start of the turn, versus a swarm deck, the first action taken should be an attack. This way, its possible to prevent both cards being played defensively.

    While it is slower I would not aggre with it being less consistant
    3 relics + 3 casks + 3 Feasts + Ruination + Rekindler +... many combinations can clog when compared to the average aggro deck.

    It needs an amount of setup that is clearly doable
    agreed

    You dont have to play around Kalista its just an strong option to win the game. 
    The deck is only being played now because Kalista was buffed.
    If you don't believe is centered around Kalista, the deck now is just weaker then it was before the Hecarin/Rekindler/Mark of the Island nerf.

    While it is certainly true that The Rekindler combo is not likely to go off its not by any means the ONE goal of the deck that it has to reach, its just an strong lategame option 
    thats exactly what i posted but with other words, so yeah, i also agree.



    Hearthstone: Me vs Firebat -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NCE81owjo

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