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Attack power can go negative :-(

Submitted 4 years, 2 months ago by

So I was playing a Braum deck against a SI/Noxus aggro spiders and falling behind fast.  They played a Frenzied Skitterer, I figure: OK, sure they got buffed but my Braum went from 0/5 to 0/5 so no big deal.  I want to take some power off the board so on my turn I challenge the weakest spider, a 3/1, and I play Radiant Strike--except Braum only becomes a 0/6, so the spider lives.  :-(  Apparently, even though it said 0 attack, it appreciated that it should have been at -1 from the Skitterer so the attack portion of my buff cancelled out.  Quickly got overrun by fearsomes a few rounds later.

Just thought I would share that bit of experience.  

  • OldManSanns's Avatar
    Azir 1040 924 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    So I was playing a Braum deck against a SI/Noxus aggro spiders and falling behind fast.  They played a Frenzied Skitterer, I figure: OK, sure they got buffed but my Braum went from 0/5 to 0/5 so no big deal.  I want to take some power off the board so on my turn I challenge the weakest spider, a 3/1, and I play Radiant Strike--except Braum only becomes a 0/6, so the spider lives.  :-(  Apparently, even though it said 0 attack, it appreciated that it should have been at -1 from the Skitterer so the attack portion of my buff cancelled out.  Quickly got overrun by fearsomes a few rounds later.

    Just thought I would share that bit of experience.  

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  • DoubleSummon's Avatar
    Ancestral Recall 1585 2271 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Probably a bug(or spider in this case)

    The game is in beta, big bugs are expected. 

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  • OldManSanns's Avatar
    Azir 1040 924 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago
    Quote From DoubleSummon

    Probably a bug(or spider in this case)

    The game is in beta, big bugs are expected. 

    No, I imagine it was as expected.  Like: if I had taken the time to mouse-over my Braum, I expect I would have seen a "-1/-0 until end of turn" listed under his buffs, so when I add "+1/+1 until end of turn" the net result was +0/+1.  I made the mistake of thinking the numbers in the bottom corners of Braum's card were the totality of his stats, but in actuality buffs act like auras that are attached to the card and those stats are just the live result of base stats + buffs.

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  • Lightspoon's Avatar
    Merfolk 495 405 Posts Joined 04/01/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    To avoid miscalculation they should show if a stat goes negative directly on board, without the need to mouseover.

    Maybe it was just a visual bug.

    "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world, and loses his own soul?"

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  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar
    Skeleton 2010 4741 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Hearthstone has this too if you've ever played Curse of Weakness

    negative numbers don't show up, but they do exist and I think that's good because it adds another layer of gameplay

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

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  • BlueSpark's Avatar
    180 193 Posts Joined 01/27/2020
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Very interesting. I could go either way on this: Either the Skitterer effect applies, reduces Braum's attack from 0 to 0, and then disappears (not affecting future buffs during the round), or the debuff lingers as OldManSanns suggests. But in the latter case, Riot should definitely work on communicating the debuff effect more clearly.

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  • Bystekhilcar's Avatar
    270 335 Posts Joined 09/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Agreed that it should be visible to the player - the main difficulty (I'd assume) is the way of creating visual clarity. At a glance, it'd be easy to miss the negative number there - and it'd be usually more impactful to mistake a negative number for a positive one than to see a buff/nerf interaction like this one.

    I'd say put the negative number in but give negatives a unique colour palette (say, white text on black background? Not sure how that is for visually impaired people) to make it clear there's something going on.

    I see you when you're sleeping; I'm gone before you wake

    I'm not as good as turn 4 Barnes; But I'm at least a Twilight Drake

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  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar
    1095 819 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    The real question is whether a minion with negative attack heals the enemy it is attacking or not.

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  • neonangel's Avatar
    465 278 Posts Joined 10/23/2018
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    It doesn't, but nice try! ;)

    "To build or destroy...only you decide which joy." - Last Crack

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  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    This is how it is supposed to work.

    There are two things affecting braum, one gives him -1 attack, and the other gives +1 attack. Therefore, he has 0 attack. I don't see what the problem is.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

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  • OldManSanns's Avatar
    Azir 1040 924 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago
    Quote From KANSAS

    This is how it is supposed to work.

    There are two things affecting braum, one gives him -1 attack, and the other gives +1 attack. Therefore, he has 0 attack. I don't see what the problem is.

    The problem was entirely user error.  I assumed since the skitterer hit first and Braum showed a "0" in the bottom left corner that his effect had run its course with no net effect--e.g., how it would have worked if he'd played an Icevale Archer to my Braum and then I buffed it later in my turn.  The difference there is that frostbite is always a -X buff where X is the attack at the instant the effect is applied (i.e., can never go net negative) so you're never "in the hole" whereas skitterer's effect obviously can.

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