Geez, the communitiy is asking for more frequent changes and now that we finally got those, you guys start complaining allready?! Changes of any nature are super healthy for the game. Frequent changes keep the meta fresh.
I don‘t see a problem with nerfing previously buffed cards. In contrary, it‘s Team 5 admitting they did a mistake and that’s a very good attitude.
Nerfing extra arms is debatable but not for your reasons. It makes priest playable right now but the card is polarizing af. It simply wins most games when played on turn 2.
PS: they obviously can not predict the meta. Noone can. That‘s why nerfs and buffs happen in the first place.
Customising the mass disenchant would essentially be blizzard helping you to abuse nerfs. You can guess yourself if that‘s ever gonna happen.
I personally can‘t be bothered to disenchant hundreds of commons and rares manually so i push the button when i need to. And saving all cards is no reasonable option imo
I may spend 6400 dust for Reno mage... it‘s the last class i‘m missing plenty of cards and i want to fill in the ranks finally. Lunas Pocketgalaxy, Archmage Antonidas (this one is overdue for a long time), Kalegos and Reno ... i‘m afraid of the nerfs though. I
I played a lot of burgle rogue today and was on 499 wins when i faced an Elise/Quest druid. The guy countered me hard, healed back up and took quickly boardcontrol. I was completly hopeless, he had lethal and there was nothing i could do.
I was about to concede but played Hench-Clan Burglar instead. And he did something, not even Zephrys could have achieved..... I pulled Time Out!! I naturally survived the next turn, played Tess Greymane and shuffled a dozen more copies into my deck!!! The next 7 or 8 turns, i managed to play Tess again and again, triggering time out every time, until the druid finally ran out of stuff!! Other than that, she summoned only a couple small minions, easily cleared by the druid ... at first. Luckily she drew an extra card aswell, so that the chaine could go on.
Best 500 wins finale ever!
For those that aren‘t convinced yet that burgle rogue is fun (and strong!), i got a Wild Bloodstinger against a Mecha‘thun - quest warlock just the turn before he could play Mecha‘thun! That was the only minion in the entire game that could have won me the game.
All of this on rank 3 btw, the deck is 100% viable (allthough very close to 50% winrate).
They needed a reasonable reward for the Dalaran Heist that is not influencing the meta by any means. Zayle was perfect for that. Locking a relevant card behind 2800 gold would be outrageous for players that have no interest in single player content.
I don‘t think he ever was intended as a Whizbang replacement. The timing would be totally stupid. Zayle has become irrelevant already and there are still almost 8 months before Whizbang rotates.
I doubt that Whizzbang is influenzing Blizzards profits aswell. He is available for allmost 2 full years. People won‘t start buying more packs next year just because Whizbang rotates.
And the guys, claiming that new players need no collection when they have whizzbang... you‘re joking right? He‘s a demo at best. Fun for a couple days but a 1/18 chance for your favorit deck sucks!
Impossible to predict what Blizzard will do. They never moved a card to classic, that makes it unlikely. But if any card ever had a chance, it‘s defintily Whizbang the wonderfull! New player experience is a hot topic for HS and this card is three steps inthe right direction.
Tip the scales could maybe summon 5 murlocs only. This way you don‘t rely entirely on AoE. Nomi and Zephrys are delaid aswell. This would probably kill the deck but i don’t mind...
The quests don’t seem op to me. Not nerf-level anyways.
Kibler made a great vid about Boom on Omnislash. He got a pretty good point. The rush aspect is a pretty big part of the flavor but the combination of everything is just to much. Omega devestator is a crazy card for instance. Armor gain is op aswell. 7 is a lot! People played healbot for 8 health back in the days.... It would need at least 2 nerfs to dethrone warriors at this point. Control wise, they are 2 tiers above anything else
I personally like conjurers on it‘s own. The twinspell aspect is crutial for rerolls, the option to use it on enemy minions allows next level play etc. Things get ugly because of Giants and Pocketgalaxy. Plus it‘s hard to punish mages for slow early game. Kibler proposed to hof the giants and i‘m on his side on this one.
If Zephrys should offer tech cards consistantly, they have to implement different algorithms for the 3 offered cards.
Something like:
Card 1 offers damage
Card 2 offers value/minion
Card 3 offers tech, boardclear
I don’t know how it’s handled atm. He probably choses from card pools similar to those categories but since he often offres different cards with similar abilities (multiple boardclears etc), my guess would be that all 3 cards follow the same allgorithm without any hirarchy. Therefore, it’s difficult to draw the line for him between tech cards and obvious choices like boardclears or lethal spells. In OP‘s example, Zephrys (not considering the nature of the secret) finds lethal and all three offered cards are chosen for that purpose.
A mechanism with different fixed goals for every card has the downside that the overall consistancy would drop significantly. You would never get more than one boardclear as an option for example. This doesn’t have to be a bad thing though! The boardclear you need is very obvious most of the time. Things get more complicated with situational cards like Shadowflame or mass dispell.
Pack #355 gave me golden King Phaoris, so let's hope this was the last time I had to wait that long...
Wow that seems unlucky. What is the average for golden legendarys? I pretty consistantly get one per expansion in about 150-200 packs. Very vague number because i have no clue how many arenas i play within once expansion cycle.
Got golden Phaoris aswell btw, not the worst golden card imo. I like shiny big board!
- Secrets are an issue. But i think there is no good solution either. He can‘t possibly assume the secret, hence specific answers won‘t be shown. He could give the SI7 infiltrator more often as an option, especially against mage. I‘m saying that without knowing the probability with 4 mana left. It‘s difficult to draw the line, hungry crab for instance is offered to frequently imo. In those cases, it seems stupid that he offers 3x damage and not more variety. (Probably not that easy to code)
- He doesn’t realize the importance of specific minions. Stuff like Deathlord has theoreticly a positive effect for you and Zephrys won‘t morph it.
- Early game boards in general confuse him. I guess the options are simply not polarizing enough. It‘s probably on the player to polarize towards an obvions answer.
- When looking for a card to play next turn, make sure you have no mana left when you play Zephrys. (I wonder if he ever offers Mind control). Ysera is a common option here btw. Pyro if your opponent is below 10 health. I don‘t know if he considers warrior or priest heropowers, probably not
- When planing lethal, it‘s crutial to play out all the other required cards first.
- In this specific szenario, he realises that the opponent is at one health, hence he offers damage. He doesn’t consider ice block as an option.
- Playing Zephrys multiple times doesn’t increase the odds significantly. The only thing that changes is the mana available.
He is hard coded spotting lethal and in this case he found it. At least he thought so.
Now to my own experience. I played against a warlock with Diseased Vulture on turn 4, plus some lackeys on board. I was really hoping for a shadowword pain but didn‘t get it. The best offer he had, was a SI7 Agent though. I guess he doesn‘t consider minions with ongoing effects as high priority to remove
Hunter is strangly amazing to play right now. It‘s so much fun to figure out a wincondition. I love secret decks in general because of the mindgames but Zephrys is the cherry on the cake.
The best part about this deck, it beats warriors! No draw issues, enough value and good tools to play around their removal. Zephrys into Thirion is totally a thing btw! They use the weapon removal on your eagelhorn bow (if not, they lose). Turns out Ashbringer is a nice warrior killer.
Brann turn 7 is crazy aswell. Cash in those 8 damage, destroy their armor. No shieldslam, no omega devestator, ... they often have to use brawl+ minions to counter this single card!
Some Zephrys plays that Kripp missed:
- Gorehowl for 7 damage
- Shadowword death or deadly shot for efficient removal
And early Zephrys plays have serious synergy with Zul‘jin
As allways, your should craft according to your existing collection.
Some personal opinion to the list you posted:
Corrupt the Waters is great.
Untapped potential is probably no T1 and the more fun versions feature Zephrys and Elise.
Bazaar Burglary is strong! .... for a meme deck. It‘s defintily a usefull card if you are into burgle rogue. No T1 but i got to rank 3 with this card yesterday.
Activate the Obelisk is losing big time against warrior - and that’s a problem rn. It‘s basicly inner fire priest in disguise. Same goes for Psychopomp and plague of Death. The later ones will see 100% play at some point though. As long as priest finds a Tier 1 deck that is.
Hack the system is not worth the dust.
Zephrys is a must craft imo. It’s unfortunate that you have no other reno card though. Reno and Brann are the 2 winners atm but all 4 see play. Those cards will be reconsidered in every expansion now.
Anka and Octosari have no real implications right now, i wouldn‘t write them off but other cards are more important.
King Phaoris is (to my surprise) a powerhouse. There was this weird Prismatic lense - spell paladin that featured him but this deck is dead already. Mages use him though! I would‘nt recommend crafting him just yet but it‘s defintily no loss if you open him in a pack!
Micro mummy is essential for quest pally (strong deck! Especially against warriors) and tortolan is great in mages. Both cards are worth it of you plan to play those decks. Long term, tortolan is probably the safer one.
Streamers leaving the game feels bad but i can‘t blame them. Imagine playing against warriors 6-10h a day, 7 days a week. I think it‘s a fact that viewership and content production has passed it‘s peak. But:
Names like Kibler or Kripparian won‘t leave us soon. They treat HS like a 9 til 5 job and do pretty well with that.
Some smaller names got big in the last couple months/years aswell. Amaz got replaced by Thijs, Savjz by RegisKilbin etc.
What i‘m trying to say, is that HS has passed the test of time imo. As it stands, HS remains fun and interesting for many people.
To the numbers, there are monthly well over 10k people getting legend on EU Servers. Another couple thousend in wild mode. That’s below 1% of the playerbase. This means, there are at least a couple million players active in EU. I would estimate roughly 10-20 Million active and semi active players world wide. In any case, HS is still going strong and definitly here to stay.
I had the same feeling as you when Rastakhan launched. I was still missing a bunch of important epics and legendary from previous expansions and wasn‘t able to use most new cards propperly.
Once the euphoria drops a little, you realize that not every legendary is as good as it seemed. Most of the time they get run over by some kind of aggressive budget deck.
My advice would be to invest a small portion of your dust into decks that you like. This week is the best and probably only opportunity to tinker around with the quests and reno decks. The unique experience is worth to risk some dust imo.
Zephrys is a good example. Even more when you got an other singelton card. I doubt him seeing much Tier 1 play but he‘ll stick around for a long time and is a fun card for sure.
Quests with high potential are an other. I‘ll craft the rogue quest since burgle rogue has allways been my go to when i‘m bored. The shaman quest seems to be a safe bet aswell.
And finally: Build around the legendarys you opened. Set yourself the goal to successfully use every single one of them at least once. But be quick, meme decks already dissapear... i
Mage will be nuts. They can go ham on spell generation and the new stuff they got is great. You‘d have to pick some secrets wich is rarely good but this time it‘s allmost certainly worth it.
Warlock has potential, both with lackeys and insane boardclears. The new cards are all busted in arena.
Rogue as allways has access to strong removal aswell. They got quit a bit of value generation that will go a long way.
Damn, the list continues.. hunter can get carried by hyenas and hunter packs.
Shaman has Earthquake and that‘s an insane card in reborn-land.
Warrior is getting the full arena package aswell. Strong removal, value generation, taunts,...
I don’t know what do think of priest tbh. They got early game support, could be exactly what they need.
Low hopes for paladin and druid. Paladin got strong cards from the LoE and Un‘goro but you rely on finding those because SoU won‘t get you far. Druid‘s new chose one cards are designed for the quest and probably to slow without it.
Those are just thoughts and general impressions from the top of my head, no deep analysis! In the end, all depends on buckets and occurence rates of relevant cards.
AOE (area of effect) is no guaranteed boardclear by definition. As long as more than one minion is affected, it‘s technically AOE. (Stuff like Cone of Cold is debatable, let‘s just say everything that affects the entire (enemy) board)
Geez, the communitiy is asking for more frequent changes and now that we finally got those, you guys start complaining allready?! Changes of any nature are super healthy for the game. Frequent changes keep the meta fresh.
I don‘t see a problem with nerfing previously buffed cards. In contrary, it‘s Team 5 admitting they did a mistake and that’s a very good attitude.
Nerfing extra arms is debatable but not for your reasons. It makes priest playable right now but the card is polarizing af. It simply wins most games when played on turn 2.
PS: they obviously can not predict the meta. Noone can. That‘s why nerfs and buffs happen in the first place.
Customising the mass disenchant would essentially be blizzard helping you to abuse nerfs. You can guess yourself if that‘s ever gonna happen.
I personally can‘t be bothered to disenchant hundreds of commons and rares manually so i push the button when i need to. And saving all cards is no reasonable option imo
Yea sure. You didn‘t get all the free stuff you were promised and the evil evil company blizzard has to be punished for that ;)
I may spend 6400 dust for Reno mage... it‘s the last class i‘m missing plenty of cards and i want to fill in the ranks finally. Lunas Pocketgalaxy, Archmage Antonidas (this one is overdue for a long time), Kalegos and Reno ... i‘m afraid of the nerfs though. I
I played a lot of burgle rogue today and was on 499 wins when i faced an Elise/Quest druid. The guy countered me hard, healed back up and took quickly boardcontrol. I was completly hopeless, he had lethal and there was nothing i could do.
I was about to concede but played Hench-Clan Burglar instead. And he did something, not even Zephrys could have achieved..... I pulled Time Out!! I naturally survived the next turn, played Tess Greymane and shuffled a dozen more copies into my deck!!! The next 7 or 8 turns, i managed to play Tess again and again, triggering time out every time, until the druid finally ran out of stuff!! Other than that, she summoned only a couple small minions, easily cleared by the druid ... at first. Luckily she drew an extra card aswell, so that the chaine could go on.
Best 500 wins finale ever!
For those that aren‘t convinced yet that burgle rogue is fun (and strong!), i got a Wild Bloodstinger against a Mecha‘thun - quest warlock just the turn before he could play Mecha‘thun! That was the only minion in the entire game that could have won me the game.
All of this on rank 3 btw, the deck is 100% viable (allthough very close to 50% winrate).
They needed a reasonable reward for the Dalaran Heist that is not influencing the meta by any means. Zayle was perfect for that. Locking a relevant card behind 2800 gold would be outrageous for players that have no interest in single player content.
I don‘t think he ever was intended as a Whizbang replacement. The timing would be totally stupid. Zayle has become irrelevant already and there are still almost 8 months before Whizbang rotates.
I doubt that Whizzbang is influenzing Blizzards profits aswell. He is available for allmost 2 full years. People won‘t start buying more packs next year just because Whizbang rotates.
And the guys, claiming that new players need no collection when they have whizzbang... you‘re joking right? He‘s a demo at best. Fun for a couple days but a 1/18 chance for your favorit deck sucks!
Impossible to predict what Blizzard will do. They never moved a card to classic, that makes it unlikely. But if any card ever had a chance, it‘s defintily Whizbang the wonderfull! New player experience is a hot topic for HS and this card is three steps inthe right direction.
Sorry for the long comment o.O
Tip the scales could maybe summon 5 murlocs only. This way you don‘t rely entirely on AoE. Nomi and Zephrys are delaid aswell. This would probably kill the deck but i don’t mind...
The quests don’t seem op to me. Not nerf-level anyways.
Kibler made a great vid about Boom on Omnislash. He got a pretty good point. The rush aspect is a pretty big part of the flavor but the combination of everything is just to much. Omega devestator is a crazy card for instance. Armor gain is op aswell. 7 is a lot! People played healbot for 8 health back in the days.... It would need at least 2 nerfs to dethrone warriors at this point. Control wise, they are 2 tiers above anything else
I personally like conjurers on it‘s own. The twinspell aspect is crutial for rerolls, the option to use it on enemy minions allows next level play etc. Things get ugly because of Giants and Pocketgalaxy. Plus it‘s hard to punish mages for slow early game. Kibler proposed to hof the giants and i‘m on his side on this one.
If Zephrys should offer tech cards consistantly, they have to implement different algorithms for the 3 offered cards.
Something like:
Card 1 offers damage
Card 2 offers value/minion
Card 3 offers tech, boardclear
I don’t know how it’s handled atm. He probably choses from card pools similar to those categories but since he often offres different cards with similar abilities (multiple boardclears etc), my guess would be that all 3 cards follow the same allgorithm without any hirarchy. Therefore, it’s difficult to draw the line for him between tech cards and obvious choices like boardclears or lethal spells. In OP‘s example, Zephrys (not considering the nature of the secret) finds lethal and all three offered cards are chosen for that purpose.
A mechanism with different fixed goals for every card has the downside that the overall consistancy would drop significantly. You would never get more than one boardclear as an option for example. This doesn’t have to be a bad thing though! The boardclear you need is very obvious most of the time. Things get more complicated with situational cards like Shadowflame or mass dispell.
I don‘t know if i‘m making sens here..
Wow that seems unlucky. What is the average for golden legendarys? I pretty consistantly get one per expansion in about 150-200 packs. Very vague number because i have no clue how many arenas i play within once expansion cycle.
Got golden Phaoris aswell btw, not the worst golden card imo. I like shiny big board!
To sum things up a little:
- Secrets are an issue. But i think there is no good solution either. He can‘t possibly assume the secret, hence specific answers won‘t be shown. He could give the SI7 infiltrator more often as an option, especially against mage. I‘m saying that without knowing the probability with 4 mana left. It‘s difficult to draw the line, hungry crab for instance is offered to frequently imo. In those cases, it seems stupid that he offers 3x damage and not more variety. (Probably not that easy to code)
- He doesn’t realize the importance of specific minions. Stuff like Deathlord has theoreticly a positive effect for you and Zephrys won‘t morph it.
- Early game boards in general confuse him. I guess the options are simply not polarizing enough. It‘s probably on the player to polarize towards an obvions answer.
- When looking for a card to play next turn, make sure you have no mana left when you play Zephrys. (I wonder if he ever offers Mind control). Ysera is a common option here btw. Pyro if your opponent is below 10 health. I don‘t know if he considers warrior or priest heropowers, probably not
- When planing lethal, it‘s crutial to play out all the other required cards first.
He certainly can offer secret removal. But:
- In this specific szenario, he realises that the opponent is at one health, hence he offers damage. He doesn’t consider ice block as an option.
- Playing Zephrys multiple times doesn’t increase the odds significantly. The only thing that changes is the mana available.
He is hard coded spotting lethal and in this case he found it. At least he thought so.
Now to my own experience. I played against a warlock with Diseased Vulture on turn 4, plus some lackeys on board. I was really hoping for a shadowword pain but didn‘t get it. The best offer he had, was a SI7 Agent though. I guess he doesn‘t consider minions with ongoing effects as high priority to remove
Hunter is strangly amazing to play right now. It‘s so much fun to figure out a wincondition. I love secret decks in general because of the mindgames but Zephrys is the cherry on the cake.
The best part about this deck, it beats warriors! No draw issues, enough value and good tools to play around their removal. Zephrys into Thirion is totally a thing btw! They use the weapon removal on your eagelhorn bow (if not, they lose). Turns out Ashbringer is a nice warrior killer.
Brann turn 7 is crazy aswell. Cash in those 8 damage, destroy their armor. No shieldslam, no omega devestator, ... they often have to use brawl+ minions to counter this single card!
Some Zephrys plays that Kripp missed:
- Gorehowl for 7 damage
- Shadowword death or deadly shot for efficient removal
And early Zephrys plays have serious synergy with Zul‘jin
As allways, your should craft according to your existing collection.
Some personal opinion to the list you posted:
Corrupt the Waters is great.
Untapped potential is probably no T1 and the more fun versions feature Zephrys and Elise.
Bazaar Burglary is strong! .... for a meme deck. It‘s defintily a usefull card if you are into burgle rogue. No T1 but i got to rank 3 with this card yesterday.
Activate the Obelisk is losing big time against warrior - and that’s a problem rn. It‘s basicly inner fire priest in disguise. Same goes for Psychopomp and plague of Death. The later ones will see 100% play at some point though. As long as priest finds a Tier 1 deck that is.
Hack the system is not worth the dust.
Zephrys is a must craft imo. It’s unfortunate that you have no other reno card though. Reno and Brann are the 2 winners atm but all 4 see play. Those cards will be reconsidered in every expansion now.
Anka and Octosari have no real implications right now, i wouldn‘t write them off but other cards are more important.
King Phaoris is (to my surprise) a powerhouse. There was this weird Prismatic lense - spell paladin that featured him but this deck is dead already. Mages use him though! I would‘nt recommend crafting him just yet but it‘s defintily no loss if you open him in a pack!
Micro mummy is essential for quest pally (strong deck! Especially against warriors) and tortolan is great in mages. Both cards are worth it of you plan to play those decks. Long term, tortolan is probably the safer one.
Streamers leaving the game feels bad but i can‘t blame them. Imagine playing against warriors 6-10h a day, 7 days a week. I think it‘s a fact that viewership and content production has passed it‘s peak. But:
Names like Kibler or Kripparian won‘t leave us soon. They treat HS like a 9 til 5 job and do pretty well with that.
Some smaller names got big in the last couple months/years aswell. Amaz got replaced by Thijs, Savjz by RegisKilbin etc.
What i‘m trying to say, is that HS has passed the test of time imo. As it stands, HS remains fun and interesting for many people.
To the numbers, there are monthly well over 10k people getting legend on EU Servers. Another couple thousend in wild mode. That’s below 1% of the playerbase. This means, there are at least a couple million players active in EU. I would estimate roughly 10-20 Million active and semi active players world wide. In any case, HS is still going strong and definitly here to stay.
I got her killed multiple times today and the effect went on
Burgle rogue it is! And it‘s finally competitive (for now at least). Just hit rank 3.
Prismatic lense pallys were fun while it lasted (both the murloc and the phaoris version). Now people know what‘s coming and save boardclears.
A deck i haven’t tried yet but looks great is big spell mage. Still debating if it‘s worth the 4K dust.
Quest druid is surprisingly ... boring. The game starts at turn 5 and from there it‘s big board after big board.
I had the same feeling as you when Rastakhan launched. I was still missing a bunch of important epics and legendary from previous expansions and wasn‘t able to use most new cards propperly.
Once the euphoria drops a little, you realize that not every legendary is as good as it seemed. Most of the time they get run over by some kind of aggressive budget deck.
My advice would be to invest a small portion of your dust into decks that you like. This week is the best and probably only opportunity to tinker around with the quests and reno decks. The unique experience is worth to risk some dust imo.
Zephrys is a good example. Even more when you got an other singelton card. I doubt him seeing much Tier 1 play but he‘ll stick around for a long time and is a fun card for sure.
Quests with high potential are an other. I‘ll craft the rogue quest since burgle rogue has allways been my go to when i‘m bored. The shaman quest seems to be a safe bet aswell.
And finally: Build around the legendarys you opened. Set yourself the goal to successfully use every single one of them at least once. But be quick, meme decks already dissapear... i
Wow that compilation will give me nightmares. Definitly a friendly guy but the cringe is strong with this one
Mage will be nuts. They can go ham on spell generation and the new stuff they got is great. You‘d have to pick some secrets wich is rarely good but this time it‘s allmost certainly worth it.
Warlock has potential, both with lackeys and insane boardclears. The new cards are all busted in arena.
Rogue as allways has access to strong removal aswell. They got quit a bit of value generation that will go a long way.
Damn, the list continues.. hunter can get carried by hyenas and hunter packs.
Shaman has Earthquake and that‘s an insane card in reborn-land.
Warrior is getting the full arena package aswell. Strong removal, value generation, taunts,...
I don’t know what do think of priest tbh. They got early game support, could be exactly what they need.
Low hopes for paladin and druid. Paladin got strong cards from the LoE and Un‘goro but you rely on finding those because SoU won‘t get you far. Druid‘s new chose one cards are designed for the quest and probably to slow without it.
Those are just thoughts and general impressions from the top of my head, no deep analysis! In the end, all depends on buckets and occurence rates of relevant cards.
AOE (area of effect) is no guaranteed boardclear by definition. As long as more than one minion is affected, it‘s technically AOE. (Stuff like Cone of Cold is debatable, let‘s just say everything that affects the entire (enemy) board)
So yes, mage has plenty of options and just got two new ones with Flame Ward and Arcane Flakmage.
Besides, hunter, rogue, paladin and druid haven‘t gotten any boardclears at all.