Topic, but I'd like to expand on my mindset on why this is something I believe needs to be addressed.
So right now, we live in a meta where Elusive Aggro is dominant, and there's a limited amount of ways for some regions to counter that strategy. Demacia has a share of Challenger Minions that can snipe the stealthy guys, Shadow Isles has removal (in fact, Shadow Isles has even BETTER removal tools than Piltover, the region that seems to want to specialize in that sort of thing, but that's another show), Freljord is pretty much reliant on Avalanche and whatever your secondary region's tools to deal (maybe you can buff Braum, and maybe you can slam an Anivia, but neither of these are really practical solutions as you're reliant on getting a way to buff Braum, and against the really aggro decks, you're dead before you can get Anivia to clear the board) This isn't an Elusive hate thread, I'm just using it as an example because it's the clearest way to demonstrate my point here, there are strategies that are going to dominate any card game, and most of the time the strengths of these strategies play right into the weakness of other decks. It's just how these things work, sure, and it's always going to be that way as long as card games are a thing.
...But the question I'm trying to ask here, is what if we had a Neutral set that any region could use, to at least offset the various number of overwhelming strategies that may enter the game, just to give the decks weak to whatever's dominating the meta this month a fighting chance? I'm not saying every deck should have the tools to counter everything, just give them one or two cards to make things a little less lopsided. Some equivalents to stuff like Dragonmaw Poacher, or Galakka Crawler, and other such things would be very healthy for the game in my opinion, and I think it could do a lot to address the current Elusive situation and other things that might spiral out of control down the line.
So, is a "Tech" set of weaker cards that any deck can utilize designed to address certain specific strategies the way to go, or is there a better approach to balance the game in the long term?
Right, good to know! I was getting concerned about doing Expeditions after a while because I was worried I might roll something I already own the max of, which would have felt REALLY bad for a 750 refund...
Good to know I'll get there, one step at a time. Still have something like 38-ish champion cards to collect...
It also ensures that Overwhelm is appropriately powerful - it'd be a lot less impactful as a keyword if the same effect could be reproduced by basically any targeted removal spell.
SPEAKING of Overwhelm, it's worth noting that if a blocker is removed against an unit with Overwhelm, you're going to take full damage from the Overwhelm dude.
Not sure how many people already knew this, but I didn't see it pointed out, so...
Has anybody gotten any extra copies of Champions they already own three of yet? I'm THINKING they might have a similar system to HS where you don't pull a Legendary card you don't need, but I don't have any hard evidence for that.
...And just for laughs, how many shards are extra champions worth?
Perhaps a bit weird to be commenting on this now, as for all we know the next two weeks will send some of these cards I want to talk about back into relevance... not likely, as I'm not seeing any real synergy here (you could say Shotbot bringing Mech Paladin back into relevance, but that already happened without him!) , but we shall see.
So, in a couple of months, it's that time of year again, Hearthstone rotation season. Witchwood, Boomsday Project, and Rastakhan's Rumble are all leaving standard play, unless Adventure Sets being part of Standard mucks things up a bit in ways I've forgotten. I remember getting confused about what was rotating after Kraken, but maybe they were still settling into this whole Standard format back then.
ANYWAYS, I'm 95% sure this is what's rotating, so my post will be based off of that premise. Cool? Cool.
You know the main thing that got me thinking about rotation, and made me want to write down my thoughts about this? At the time, I couldn't think of a SINGLE card from the Witchwood expansion that sees any play today.
Eventually, they started to trickle in. Town Crier. Lifedrinker. Hench-Clan Thug, on and off, I don't believe it's currently being played, but I do believe it was in and out of Rogue decks while the Descent of Dragons meta was settling. I guess Lord Godfrey is part of the current control Warlock build, and maybe this is just a recent thing, but when's the last time you've seen a Lord Godfrey played on you in Standard? It's been a while on my end!
I'm not saying there isn't more, but that's all that's coming to mind. Considering we once lived in a world where the dastardly Shudderwocky terrorized the meta alongside the EVIL Hagatha, two cards that single-handedly carried the Shaman class (and it wasn't uncommon to see them run together, although both cards could create very different archtypes if one so choosed) it's honestly strange to think about how that's the biggest difference we'd see in the meta if Witchwood rotated tomorrow. I think everybody would agree me with me on this, that in early 2020, the Keyword Rush that the Witchwood introduced is now a lot more impactful than the Witchwood expansion itself.
Perhaps I wouldn't be saying this if Baku the Mooneater never went to HoF (I'm in the camp of believing Even decks were still about to die with all the great tools for Evenlock and Even Paladin rotating last year, but the world will never know) but we live in this world as it is.
Onto the Boomsday Project. Zilliax is certainly an impactful card that a lot of decks utilized. SN1P SN4P is another card seen in many decks, and it's also an interesting case in that it's a card that was free for most players (not saying nobody had to craft him, don't get snippy), cards like Wargear are carrying Mech Paladin in the fight against Embiggen Druid, Boommaster Flark seems to have finally found his niche as a part of Quest Hunter, and Stargazer Luna and the Pocket Galaxy are two of the legendaries pulling the Highlander Mage deck together for potential highrolling. ...But wait, aren't I forgetting a few things? Surely I am. What about the dreaded control Warrior deck from back in the day? What about tools like Dyn-O-matic, Omega Devastator, Warpath (yes, I know that's a Witchwood card), Supercollider, the big bad Dr. Boom himself?
Yeah, none of that stuff gets run anymore, Warrior found better stuff to put in.
I'm editing in Mecha'thun, because... I honestly forgot Mecha'thun decks even existed when I was writing this up.
BUT WHAT ABOUT RASTAKHAN'S... okay, you already know where this is going, don't you?
Rastakhan's Rumble is easily the most forgettable set of all the ones we're talking about today. Halazzi helps out with Quest Hunter. He's replaceable Hench-Clan Hogsteed was a fantastic card on launch, but it's usage has dwindled considerably, and I don't believe anything that isn't Quest Hunter wants to run it right now. Holy Wrath came and went in the meta whenever it worked, and it's not working anymore. Part of the Dragon package introduced in Rastakhan (Firetree Witchdoctor, Crowd Roaster, Emberscale Drake) was being played around with for a bit, but as far as I know, all of that's been dropped now. Jan'alai the Dragonhawk used to be a fantastic card that had such a presence in Mage decks, BEAST MAGE was a thing for a bit, using cards like Untamed Beastmaster to buff your Jan'alai, Black Cat, and other such things with really good Mage cards that just so happened to be Beasts.
And now that entire package is dead.
Akali the Rhino, Oondasta, big rush minions were a thing at one point back when we were in a combo meta and everybody wanted to smash it before their combo happened. (Sidenote: Holy crap, remember when Amani War Bear surprised everyone and ended up being GOOD? Yeah...)
Now we aren't in a combo meta anymore. Which is also why Mojomaster Zihi fell out of favor, she's not really worth much when we aren't in a combo meta.
So, is there a point to any of this? How Big Bad Blizzard scammed us all through powercreep, rendering our previous OP cards completely worthless in a Descent of Dragons meta, forcing us to buy the shiny new cards as the old ones that used to rule the roost were slowly but surely forced out of the metagame?
No, not really. It's just weird to think about, to me. Three expansions, all of which used to have some extremely powerful cards that dominated or played a significant part in the metagame at some point, and I can think of so few, if any cards that I'm actually going to miss vanishing from the metagame. I'm not saying the rotation won't have any impact and won't change the meta at all (Mech Paladin is in a REALLY bad place now, for example) a rotation is on it's way, and yet? For me personally, it really doesn't feel that way, at all. I wouldn't call this a bold prediction to say that this set rotation will probably be the least meaningful one in Hearthstone's history. Compare that to Infinite Value Death Knights rotating out last year, and it's such a bizarre shift in the landscape to me, that we live in a world where cards like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, Hagatha the Witch, the SHUDDERWOCKY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, and a 7 mana 4/4 that summons Ragnaros the Firelord with him are in the current format, and don't see any play.
I've said my piece, now I'll open it up to you guys, any thoughts?
And before anyone says it, yes, cards stagnate and phase out of the meta, that's how card games work, that's going to happen.
I challenge anyone to argue that there was ever a time in Hearthstone history where it happened more than the Year of the Dragon.
so all the downvoters are happy that games played after the first 3 wins per day are practically worthless..? xd
No, the downvoters are downvoting because...
A: Your argument makes no sense to begin with, daily quests by design are going to be more impactful than regular wins.
B: You don't even represent your point correctly, as it's 200 XP for seven more wins past the dailies.
C: This is somehow not enough? 200 XP is a very reasonable reward when a daily quest is 1000 or 1500 if you roll a good one, (which is not at all worthless, by the way, 7 x 200 is 1400 XP per day, that's quite an extra chunk there) and it's a BAD thing that we aren't being glued to the computer grinding out more wins? What in the WORLD are you talking about?
You had a bad take and people are calling you on it. Just take the L on this and move on.
If there's a problem with Runeterra's economy, this ain't it, chief.
Not sure how much easier or harder it'll be to do this from here on out. There's a lot more time to do it in future weeks, but I don't have those tutorials for easy XP grinding.
They advertised a free pack for clearing the Tavern Brawl, and that's exactly what they are owed to pay to anybody who completes it.
I haven't paid anything? I'm sorry, would you like me to upload my collection so I can expose the SHIT out of you? I've spent hundreds on this game. The least Blizz can do in return is to make sure the rewards they promise are awarded properly.
And not just for me, but for everybody. If they tell you you are getting a pack if you do this, and you do the thing they ask of you, YOU SHOULD GET THE PACK. End of story, bottom line.
On the contrary, they DO owe you the card pack that is promised for beating the brawl, and if there's an issue with claiming that, like there was last time, then there's a problem.
Doesn't seem like there was such a problem this time, though, if I understand correctly, people who didn't get their pack from Northrend can get it in this new brawl, so I don't see any need to break out the picket signs.
Seems innocent enough, but I mean... it's a Harvest Golem that gives up 1 health for 1 less mana. That is one hell of a bargain.
Magnetic has uses as a keyword, and this is two great minions to activate your Mummy quest on, and on top of all of that, this is basically a 2 mana 4/3. Seven stats on two mana. That's actually insane when you think about it.
Keep an eye on this thing. It's honestly kind of scary.
I get this a lot too. The client is new and unrefined and it'll probably have to go through some QoL patches before all this gets sorted.
Topic, but I'd like to expand on my mindset on why this is something I believe needs to be addressed.
So right now, we live in a meta where Elusive Aggro is dominant, and there's a limited amount of ways for some regions to counter that strategy. Demacia has a share of Challenger Minions that can snipe the stealthy guys, Shadow Isles has removal (in fact, Shadow Isles has even BETTER removal tools than Piltover, the region that seems to want to specialize in that sort of thing, but that's another show), Freljord is pretty much reliant on Avalanche and whatever your secondary region's tools to deal (maybe you can buff Braum, and maybe you can slam an Anivia, but neither of these are really practical solutions as you're reliant on getting a way to buff Braum, and against the really aggro decks, you're dead before you can get Anivia to clear the board) This isn't an Elusive hate thread, I'm just using it as an example because it's the clearest way to demonstrate my point here, there are strategies that are going to dominate any card game, and most of the time the strengths of these strategies play right into the weakness of other decks. It's just how these things work, sure, and it's always going to be that way as long as card games are a thing.
...But the question I'm trying to ask here, is what if we had a Neutral set that any region could use, to at least offset the various number of overwhelming strategies that may enter the game, just to give the decks weak to whatever's dominating the meta this month a fighting chance? I'm not saying every deck should have the tools to counter everything, just give them one or two cards to make things a little less lopsided. Some equivalents to stuff like Dragonmaw Poacher, or Galakka Crawler, and other such things would be very healthy for the game in my opinion, and I think it could do a lot to address the current Elusive situation and other things that might spiral out of control down the line.
So, is a "Tech" set of weaker cards that any deck can utilize designed to address certain specific strategies the way to go, or is there a better approach to balance the game in the long term?
I’m just spitballing here, but what if Challenger Units could block Elusive?
Right, good to know! I was getting concerned about doing Expeditions after a while because I was worried I might roll something I already own the max of, which would have felt REALLY bad for a 750 refund...
Good to know I'll get there, one step at a time. Still have something like 38-ish champion cards to collect...
SPEAKING of Overwhelm, it's worth noting that if a blocker is removed against an unit with Overwhelm, you're going to take full damage from the Overwhelm dude.
Not sure how many people already knew this, but I didn't see it pointed out, so...
Has anybody gotten any extra copies of Champions they already own three of yet? I'm THINKING they might have a similar system to HS where you don't pull a Legendary card you don't need, but I don't have any hard evidence for that.
...And just for laughs, how many shards are extra champions worth?
Perhaps a bit weird to be commenting on this now, as for all we know the next two weeks will send some of these cards I want to talk about back into relevance... not likely, as I'm not seeing any real synergy here (you could say Shotbot bringing Mech Paladin back into relevance, but that already happened without him!) , but we shall see.
So, in a couple of months, it's that time of year again, Hearthstone rotation season. Witchwood, Boomsday Project, and Rastakhan's Rumble are all leaving standard play, unless Adventure Sets being part of Standard mucks things up a bit in ways I've forgotten. I remember getting confused about what was rotating after Kraken, but maybe they were still settling into this whole Standard format back then.
ANYWAYS, I'm 95% sure this is what's rotating, so my post will be based off of that premise. Cool? Cool.
You know the main thing that got me thinking about rotation, and made me want to write down my thoughts about this? At the time, I couldn't think of a SINGLE card from the Witchwood expansion that sees any play today.
Eventually, they started to trickle in. Town Crier. Lifedrinker. Hench-Clan Thug, on and off, I don't believe it's currently being played, but I do believe it was in and out of Rogue decks while the Descent of Dragons meta was settling. I guess Lord Godfrey is part of the current control Warlock build, and maybe this is just a recent thing, but when's the last time you've seen a Lord Godfrey played on you in Standard? It's been a while on my end!
I'm not saying there isn't more, but that's all that's coming to mind. Considering we once lived in a world where the dastardly Shudderwocky terrorized the meta alongside the EVIL Hagatha, two cards that single-handedly carried the Shaman class (and it wasn't uncommon to see them run together, although both cards could create very different archtypes if one so choosed) it's honestly strange to think about how that's the biggest difference we'd see in the meta if Witchwood rotated tomorrow. I think everybody would agree me with me on this, that in early 2020, the Keyword Rush that the Witchwood introduced is now a lot more impactful than the Witchwood expansion itself.
Perhaps I wouldn't be saying this if Baku the Mooneater never went to HoF (I'm in the camp of believing Even decks were still about to die with all the great tools for Evenlock and Even Paladin rotating last year, but the world will never know) but we live in this world as it is.
Onto the Boomsday Project. Zilliax is certainly an impactful card that a lot of decks utilized. SN1P SN4P is another card seen in many decks, and it's also an interesting case in that it's a card that was free for most players (not saying nobody had to craft him, don't get snippy), cards like Wargear are carrying Mech Paladin in the fight against Embiggen Druid, Boommaster Flark seems to have finally found his niche as a part of Quest Hunter, and Stargazer Luna and the Pocket Galaxy are two of the legendaries pulling the Highlander Mage deck together for potential highrolling.
...But wait, aren't I forgetting a few things? Surely I am. What about the dreaded control Warrior deck from back in the day? What about tools like Dyn-O-matic, Omega Devastator, Warpath (yes, I know that's a Witchwood card), Supercollider, the big bad Dr. Boom himself?
Yeah, none of that stuff gets run anymore, Warrior found better stuff to put in.
I'm editing in Mecha'thun, because... I honestly forgot Mecha'thun decks even existed when I was writing this up.
BUT WHAT ABOUT RASTAKHAN'S... okay, you already know where this is going, don't you?
Rastakhan's Rumble is easily the most forgettable set of all the ones we're talking about today. Halazzi helps out with Quest Hunter. He's replaceable Hench-Clan Hogsteed was a fantastic card on launch, but it's usage has dwindled considerably, and I don't believe anything that isn't Quest Hunter wants to run it right now. Holy Wrath came and went in the meta whenever it worked, and it's not working anymore. Part of the Dragon package introduced in Rastakhan (Firetree Witchdoctor, Crowd Roaster, Emberscale Drake) was being played around with for a bit, but as far as I know, all of that's been dropped now. Jan'alai the Dragonhawk used to be a fantastic card that had such a presence in Mage decks, BEAST MAGE was a thing for a bit, using cards like Untamed Beastmaster to buff your Jan'alai, Black Cat, and other such things with really good Mage cards that just so happened to be Beasts.
And now that entire package is dead.
Akali the Rhino, Oondasta, big rush minions were a thing at one point back when we were in a combo meta and everybody wanted to smash it before their combo happened. (Sidenote: Holy crap, remember when Amani War Bear surprised everyone and ended up being GOOD? Yeah...)
Now we aren't in a combo meta anymore. Which is also why Mojomaster Zihi fell out of favor, she's not really worth much when we aren't in a combo meta.
So, is there a point to any of this? How Big Bad Blizzard scammed us all through powercreep, rendering our previous OP cards completely worthless in a Descent of Dragons meta, forcing us to buy the shiny new cards as the old ones that used to rule the roost were slowly but surely forced out of the metagame?
No, not really. It's just weird to think about, to me. Three expansions, all of which used to have some extremely powerful cards that dominated or played a significant part in the metagame at some point, and I can think of so few, if any cards that I'm actually going to miss vanishing from the metagame. I'm not saying the rotation won't have any impact and won't change the meta at all (Mech Paladin is in a REALLY bad place now, for example) a rotation is on it's way, and yet? For me personally, it really doesn't feel that way, at all. I wouldn't call this a bold prediction to say that this set rotation will probably be the least meaningful one in Hearthstone's history. Compare that to Infinite Value Death Knights rotating out last year, and it's such a bizarre shift in the landscape to me, that we live in a world where cards like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, Hagatha the Witch, the SHUDDERWOCKY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, and a 7 mana 4/4 that summons Ragnaros the Firelord with him are in the current format, and don't see any play.
I've said my piece, now I'll open it up to you guys, any thoughts?
And before anyone says it, yes, cards stagnate and phase out of the meta, that's how card games work, that's going to happen.
I challenge anyone to argue that there was ever a time in Hearthstone history where it happened more than the Year of the Dragon.
I will proudly and unapologetically use emotes however the hell I please to.
#UseItAgainstMe.
No, the downvoters are downvoting because...
A: Your argument makes no sense to begin with, daily quests by design are going to be more impactful than regular wins.
B: You don't even represent your point correctly, as it's 200 XP for seven more wins past the dailies.
C: This is somehow not enough? 200 XP is a very reasonable reward when a daily quest is 1000 or 1500 if you roll a good one, (which is not at all worthless, by the way, 7 x 200 is 1400 XP per day, that's quite an extra chunk there) and it's a BAD thing that we aren't being glued to the computer grinding out more wins? What in the WORLD are you talking about?
You had a bad take and people are calling you on it. Just take the L on this and move on.
If there's a problem with Runeterra's economy, this ain't it, chief.
Quest and daily wins, I really don’t think I’m doing anything that outlandish.
I'm easily maxing the vault for the second week in a row.
If anything? Runeterra's model is too generous.
https://imgur.com/jQ7GHGq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijlsBWPsPAw
Not sure how much easier or harder it'll be to do this from here on out. There's a lot more time to do it in future weeks, but I don't have those tutorials for easy XP grinding.
We'll take things as they go, I suppose.
What do you suppose Highlander Mage cuts to put in The Amazing Reno? Alex?
You think THAT'S weird, both myself and Finley had Rumble Run totems on the last round for absolutely no reason...
Meh, whatever. Got a pack last week, got a pack this week. It's no skin off my balls.
They advertised a free pack for clearing the Tavern Brawl, and that's exactly what they are owed to pay to anybody who completes it.
I haven't paid anything? I'm sorry, would you like me to upload my collection so I can expose the SHIT out of you? I've spent hundreds on this game. The least Blizz can do in return is to make sure the rewards they promise are awarded properly.
And not just for me, but for everybody. If they tell you you are getting a pack if you do this, and you do the thing they ask of you, YOU SHOULD GET THE PACK. End of story, bottom line.
Keep booing me, I'm right. :)
On the contrary, they DO owe you the card pack that is promised for beating the brawl, and if there's an issue with claiming that, like there was last time, then there's a problem.
Doesn't seem like there was such a problem this time, though, if I understand correctly, people who didn't get their pack from Northrend can get it in this new brawl, so I don't see any need to break out the picket signs.
Not again.
I'm just glad I ran through this one in time and that there was at least enough time to do it this time...
Printing combo hate cards is a cool idea, even though this really isn't a combo meta at all.
But it always could be, so it's good to have the option.
Seems innocent enough, but I mean... it's a Harvest Golem that gives up 1 health for 1 less mana. That is one hell of a bargain.
Magnetic has uses as a keyword, and this is two great minions to activate your Mummy quest on, and on top of all of that, this is basically a 2 mana 4/3. Seven stats on two mana. That's actually insane when you think about it.
Keep an eye on this thing. It's honestly kind of scary.
At first I was like "yawn, more broken adventure cards we can't actually use in Standard."
And then I was like... oh shit.
This'll certainly be interesting.