I am on EU server also, currently resting at level 5. Maybe murloc shamans sometimes as well. Or I remember the quest ones better because they irritate me more lol.
In vanilla trying to get past a group of mobs was already a challenge which could result in multiple respawns at slightly too crowded spaces so run...run...run...die...run back...run...run...run...die...run back etc. Until you finally reached a safe spot to look at all your red armor.
I still remember that glorious day when I finally got my first class weapon which only happened because I got help from someone with much higher level. That vanilla game was insanely more hard to level then present cakewalks where you can level a new expansion within a week and still have time for eat,sleep etc.
O this feeling when you can finish a long game against a Control Warrior when your last three cards are Khadgar, Faceless Manipulator and Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk to dish out the lethal for 32 face damage.
Well all shamans I face are quest ones. So Shaman only plays that deck now it seems. Paladin has 2 decks left, one is the quest the other is the OTK/combo one. Hunter quest I see rarely, mage quest never. I have 0 winrate with it. Do not even know how to buff that one properly. Priest quest is strong. Warrior would be OK if warrior did not have even stronger T1 decks to choose from.
I think silence cards will return when the meta has settled a bit. Now ppl are still experimenting with all the new goodies so rather play that shiny new card instead of putting in a boring silence card. Same for weapon removal; as soon as rogue is T1 again with that new weapon all decks will tech in a weapon removal again.
Mmmm. I am not sure about the fair part here. Let me try to break this down in a logical way.
1. Cards can be buffed in lots of ways, one is increasing their stats, one is to reduce their mana. Lots of cards in HS do this. This mechanism is not unfair in itself.
2. Really strong legendary cards can buff not one card, but change the rest of the game. This is also not unfair since it is a legendary. You need to draw it, and most of the time the legendary has a high mana cost.
3. The idea of deck-building is to combine cards in such a way they create the maximal impact. This is the core of HS. Combining different cards to get optimal results. Again, this is not unfair, this is what HS is.
So now we look at [Hearthstone Card (Luna's Pocket Galaxy[Hearthstone Card (. At 7 mana, the card was not played in any competitive deck, since to be meaningful, you would have to put a lot of high mana minions in your deck, and then face the risk of drawing those in your first 6 turns insta losing you the game, or put less big minions in your deck and then risk to spend 7 mana for not a lot of minions reduced and also not a lot of turns to enjoy this since you also need to draw those reduced stuff so you also need some draw engines at the ready (like Luna for instance), and against aggro, if you survive until 7 you would win anyway even with a bunch of Angry Chickens.
Personally I have tried to make this card work before the nerf and it was so cool when I could pull of a Star Aligner combo with it. That did not happen a lot of course but a lot more than I expected. So I was super happy when it got buffed to 5 mana! My god. Then suddenly everybody started playing it and 0-mana mountain giants that got the conjure call treatment where all over the place. Mages were happy! Even without a fireball or a pyroblast. This could lead to some juicy swing turns. Still I believe the proper way to nerf this was to nerf the mountain giant conjure call combo. They should have printed another 12-mana minion with horrible stats but a nice battle-cry or something, so the result would be less predictable and strong. And now with warrior and priest being nerfed, I expect to only find hunterstone, roguestone, murladins and questoshamans on the ladder.
Personally I will just remove the dust on that old star aligner deck and see how it goes. Hell maybe even try to make it into a reno deck, although that crazy moment when your opponent just attacked some giant and you can then play 2 star aligners in a row for 2 mana…total bliss. And fair!!
I do not understand this nerf. From Blizz's explanation it was used with giants to create extremely powerful board states "at a point in the game where opponents didn't have effective answers" well I thought this was the point of the game, if you are lucky enough to get the cards you need, to get an advantage so you can win once in a while. Like a Inner Fire priest can win from nowhere all the time if he has the right cards in hand and one minion on the board.
Although I agree that it being a twinspell you have twice as much chance. This also hugely hits cyclone mage as it's also a nerf to magic trick. So basically mage had two nice decks and they destroyed them all. Guess its hunterstone again.
I already played it at 7 in a "kill all warriors" deck that struggled against aggro. I think together with the nerf to conjurer's calling the boards with big boys will arise at least one turn later, and playing 2 conjurer's calling in one turn even 2 turns later which is a lot. I was happy with mage for once but I guess its back to the drawing bord. I guess aggro will once again dominate the ladder.
No, there is a difference between being OP and being just good. At this point in time a lot of the decks played are still experimental because the new expansion is only a few days old. Therefore stats that only count winrate are not so interesting. Say if the deck has a 75% winrate against all the tier 1 decks of the last expansion, that would mean something reliable. If I look at the best paladin murloc deck it has 60.1% winrate overall, and about even (51%) against Warrior. And its overall is influenced by its good score against the very popular druid deck, which is not so strange since its kinda aggro murloc and when druid finishes quest then we have call of the tides :).
What I would like to see in a discussion about decks being OP or something like that is some hard verifiable numbers and definitions which can be verified in an independent manner using scientific methods. Something like "this deck will win 75% of all games on average if played by an algorithm that tries to spent as much mana each turn as possible". Something like this would be definitely OP.
I agree that you can detect if a deck is OP on the basis of what is played in the meta, say the majority of games are played between 1 out of 3 decks, 1 is the OP one, the other one is its only counter, and the third one tries to feast on the only counter, and all other played decks have seriously bad winrates against the OP deck. Something like this. Apart from this, people are always complaining about early combo's that seriously unbalance the board state, being either a board of giants, a board of murlocs or a board of big-health taunts which will soon turn into an inner fire OTK. On one hand the insane RNG luck someone can have can be irritating, on the other hand this is just part of the game and works not only for one person, but also for the other.
Well a turn 5 tip the scales can be compared to a turn 5 mountain giant combo. You need to have the prismatic lens ready on 4, and some luck in fishing the right spell/minion from your deck as well. I would say chance you have that is about 0.3 * 0.6 = 18% chance on getting that combo, based on a deck that only runs those 2 spells.
Also had an interesting game against a rogue who had just put 8 copies of Zephrys the Great in his deck after he already used it twice using a Shadowstep. Still managed to win using some big boys on the board though.
Well, the rogue will have to spend mana to wield that weapon. Secondly, you can freeze it. Thirdly, you can destroy it so they have to use 2 mana again. So it can be irritating but it is not unwinnable.
If you are a bit careful in positioning your Mountain Giants and have delicate aim with your Conjurer's Calling then you do not need to highroll your ass off. You can just smash face.
I have faced a lot of Druid quest opponents and lost some of them but won more of them. My mage removal and refill and card-draw was just better, and more chances on real crazy bonkers op stuff happening. Their main problem: they can not remove and fill board at the same time, and have limited draw. So either they can remove your board and its your turn to fill it again leaving you on top, or they put something on the board with some choose-one spell. While other decks have powerful remove-and-play-minion options available (stuff with rush etc).
For instance the deck shown by RandomGuy: the highest stat on a minion in that deck is 5-10 or 10-5, while as a mage its not uncommon to summon several minions with stats >7-7 (mountain giants, 1-cost big minions using Luna, conjurer calling on some big dudes etc). So in theory the quest delivers nice cards to play, but the factual minions on the board are not that strong and easier to remove.
Yes but then you do not have the chance of opening a golden legendary :)
I am on EU server also, currently resting at level 5. Maybe murloc shamans sometimes as well. Or I remember the quest ones better because they irritate me more lol.
In vanilla trying to get past a group of mobs was already a challenge which could result in multiple respawns at slightly too crowded spaces so run...run...run...die...run back...run...run...run...die...run back etc. Until you finally reached a safe spot to look at all your red armor.
I still remember that glorious day when I finally got my first class weapon which only happened because I got help from someone with much higher level. That vanilla game was insanely more hard to level then present cakewalks where you can level a new expansion within a week and still have time for eat,sleep etc.
O this feeling when you can finish a long game against a Control Warrior when your last three cards are Khadgar, Faceless Manipulator and Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk to dish out the lethal for 32 face damage.
And basically this is not a nerf, but a buff of Naga Sand Witch
Well all shamans I face are quest ones. So Shaman only plays that deck now it seems. Paladin has 2 decks left, one is the quest the other is the OTK/combo one. Hunter quest I see rarely, mage quest never. I have 0 winrate with it. Do not even know how to buff that one properly. Priest quest is strong. Warrior would be OK if warrior did not have even stronger T1 decks to choose from.
I think silence cards will return when the meta has settled a bit. Now ppl are still experimenting with all the new goodies so rather play that shiny new card instead of putting in a boring silence card. Same for weapon removal; as soon as rogue is T1 again with that new weapon all decks will tech in a weapon removal again.
Mmmm. I am not sure about the fair part here. Let me try to break this down in a logical way.
1. Cards can be buffed in lots of ways, one is increasing their stats, one is to reduce their mana. Lots of cards in HS do this. This mechanism is not unfair in itself.
2. Really strong legendary cards can buff not one card, but change the rest of the game. This is also not unfair since it is a legendary. You need to draw it, and most of the time the legendary has a high mana cost.
3. The idea of deck-building is to combine cards in such a way they create the maximal impact. This is the core of HS. Combining different cards to get optimal results. Again, this is not unfair, this is what HS is.
So now we look at [Hearthstone Card (Luna's Pocket Galaxy[Hearthstone Card (. At 7 mana, the card was not played in any competitive deck, since to be meaningful, you would have to put a lot of high mana minions in your deck, and then face the risk of drawing those in your first 6 turns insta losing you the game, or put less big minions in your deck and then risk to spend 7 mana for not a lot of minions reduced and also not a lot of turns to enjoy this since you also need to draw those reduced stuff so you also need some draw engines at the ready (like Luna for instance), and against aggro, if you survive until 7 you would win anyway even with a bunch of Angry Chickens.
Personally I have tried to make this card work before the nerf and it was so cool when I could pull of a Star Aligner combo with it. That did not happen a lot of course but a lot more than I expected. So I was super happy when it got buffed to 5 mana! My god. Then suddenly everybody started playing it and 0-mana mountain giants that got the conjure call treatment where all over the place. Mages were happy! Even without a fireball or a pyroblast. This could lead to some juicy swing turns. Still I believe the proper way to nerf this was to nerf the mountain giant conjure call combo. They should have printed another 12-mana minion with horrible stats but a nice battle-cry or something, so the result would be less predictable and strong. And now with warrior and priest being nerfed, I expect to only find hunterstone, roguestone, murladins and questoshamans on the ladder.
Personally I will just remove the dust on that old star aligner deck and see how it goes. Hell maybe even try to make it into a reno deck, although that crazy moment when your opponent just attacked some giant and you can then play 2 star aligners in a row for 2 mana…total bliss. And fair!!
) Not Found]) Not Found]I do not understand this nerf. From Blizz's explanation it was used with giants to create extremely powerful board states "at a point in the game where opponents didn't have effective answers" well I thought this was the point of the game, if you are lucky enough to get the cards you need, to get an advantage so you can win once in a while. Like a Inner Fire priest can win from nowhere all the time if he has the right cards in hand and one minion on the board.
Although I agree that it being a twinspell you have twice as much chance. This also hugely hits cyclone mage as it's also a nerf to magic trick. So basically mage had two nice decks and they destroyed them all. Guess its hunterstone again.
I already played it at 7 in a "kill all warriors" deck that struggled against aggro. I think together with the nerf to conjurer's calling the boards with big boys will arise at least one turn later, and playing 2 conjurer's calling in one turn even 2 turns later which is a lot. I was happy with mage for once but I guess its back to the drawing bord. I guess aggro will once again dominate the ladder.
No, there is a difference between being OP and being just good. At this point in time a lot of the decks played are still experimental because the new expansion is only a few days old. Therefore stats that only count winrate are not so interesting. Say if the deck has a 75% winrate against all the tier 1 decks of the last expansion, that would mean something reliable. If I look at the best paladin murloc deck it has 60.1% winrate overall, and about even (51%) against Warrior. And its overall is influenced by its good score against the very popular druid deck, which is not so strange since its kinda aggro murloc and when druid finishes quest then we have call of the tides :).
What I would like to see in a discussion about decks being OP or something like that is some hard verifiable numbers and definitions which can be verified in an independent manner using scientific methods. Something like "this deck will win 75% of all games on average if played by an algorithm that tries to spent as much mana each turn as possible". Something like this would be definitely OP.
I agree that you can detect if a deck is OP on the basis of what is played in the meta, say the majority of games are played between 1 out of 3 decks, 1 is the OP one, the other one is its only counter, and the third one tries to feast on the only counter, and all other played decks have seriously bad winrates against the OP deck. Something like this. Apart from this, people are always complaining about early combo's that seriously unbalance the board state, being either a board of giants, a board of murlocs or a board of big-health taunts which will soon turn into an inner fire OTK. On one hand the insane RNG luck someone can have can be irritating, on the other hand this is just part of the game and works not only for one person, but also for the other.
Well a turn 5 tip the scales can be compared to a turn 5 mountain giant combo. You need to have the prismatic lens ready on 4, and some luck in fishing the right spell/minion from your deck as well. I would say chance you have that is about 0.3 * 0.6 = 18% chance on getting that combo, based on a deck that only runs those 2 spells.
Also had an interesting game against a rogue who had just put 8 copies of Zephrys the Great in his deck after he already used it twice using a Shadowstep. Still managed to win using some big boys on the board though.
That moment when a hunter uses Wild Bloodstinger on curve so you get your Mountain Giant on the board for free and the turn after you can slap down Khadgar + Conjurer's Calling to seal the game <grin>
@duppie: yes I was being ironic here :) meant it as a joke.
Well, the rogue will have to spend mana to wield that weapon. Secondly, you can freeze it. Thirdly, you can destroy it so they have to use 2 mana again. So it can be irritating but it is not unwinnable.
If you are a bit careful in positioning your Mountain Giants and have delicate aim with your Conjurer's Calling then you do not need to highroll your ass off. You can just smash face.
I have faced a lot of Druid quest opponents and lost some of them but won more of them. My mage removal and refill and card-draw was just better, and more chances on real crazy bonkers op stuff happening. Their main problem: they can not remove and fill board at the same time, and have limited draw. So either they can remove your board and its your turn to fill it again leaving you on top, or they put something on the board with some choose-one spell. While other decks have powerful remove-and-play-minion options available (stuff with rush etc).
For instance the deck shown by RandomGuy: the highest stat on a minion in that deck is 5-10 or 10-5, while as a mage its not uncommon to summon several minions with stats >7-7 (mountain giants, 1-cost big minions using Luna, conjurer calling on some big dudes etc). So in theory the quest delivers nice cards to play, but the factual minions on the board are not that strong and easier to remove.
I am having fun with a reno mage deck.