3 copies of Hush is way too much. I don't even think one copy is any good. Not only Hush lasts for only 1 turn but also you don't want to stall or trade units or waste mana on multiple casts.
Second: Targon has 0 CARD DRAW SPELLS. I have no idea what your card advantage notion even is. The best Targon can do is cycle and stay even outside of generating Gem cards. So i think giving Targon a different mechanic like generate/replace/multiple casts instead of the standard "Draw 2" spell is a nice idea for region identity.
I play a a 1/3 blocker, that gives me a card that grants me a 4/3 life leech and a 4/3 elusive. How is that not card advantage?
There are 3 core concepts in a card game: 1- Card Advantage: Convert mana (resource) into extra cards in hand (resource) 2- Tempo: Convert mana (resource) into board advantage (champions, units, direct damage, heal, etc) 3- Efficiency: How nuch BANG you get for the ammount of resource spent
The 3 concepts are VERY tied together. Card Advantage is meaningless without Tempo, and Tempo is meaningless without Efficiency. A player may hold 8+ cards in hand then his oponnent, but if he can't transition this advantage into board preassure (tempo) in a reasonable time (efficiency), then its all useless.
Now answering your question: Your example is not card advantage. One unit cost 3, and the other unit costs 6. So the result is a 9 mana unit that DO NOT generate any kind of card advantage, worth 9/9 stats plus some Elusive + Lifesteal. 1- Zero card advantage (its a cycle card at best. Cycle: a card that goes even by drawing just 1 card to replace itself) 2- Extremely bad tempo card on T3 but extremely good tempo on T6 3- Good efficiency (9 mana worth 9/9 stats that has Elusive + Lifesteal that can be played on T6 looks good to me)
My point is that you need to see all the context together.
First: cards that replace themselves are already in the game from day one. You need to be more specific and name said cards for any productive discussion. Second: Targon has 0 CARD DRAW SPELLS. I have no idea what your card advantage notion even is. The best Targon can do is cycle and stay even outside of generating Gem cards. So i think giving Targon a different mechanic like generate/replace/multiple casts instead of the standard "Draw 2" spell is a nice idea for region identity. Third: Taric would take Ezreal over Karma any day.
Silence removes ALL TEXT (Any buffs/Keywords/Ephemeral/etc) with the exception of Spellshield.
In the case of Sunburst, The silence happens first (so a unit with extra health loses all buffs) then damage happens after. In other words, any unit with a base health of 6 or less will die to that spell AS LONG its the first card played on that turn AND the target unit doesn't have Spellshield.
Are the actual Celestial cards too powerful/is the cost of getting a Celestial card too low? Some specific cards like Solari Priestess, which pick from a very limited pool of Celestials, are probably a little overtuned. But most of the cards seem decently priced for the power level of the cards, in no small part due to the fact that most Celestial spells are slow, so your opponent has time to react to just about every Celestial card before it snowballs to a win.
Amazing post as always Meisterz. Fully agree with you, just want to add my thoughts about this part.
I present one way to analyze if Solari Priestess is fair or not:
-> Solari Priestess mana (3)+ Selected card mana (x) + 1/2 body <-
Example: Selected Spell -> Falling Comet 3 mana + 6 mana = 9 mana Now ask yourself: Is it a 9 mana obliteration that summons a 1/2 body at slow speed worth 9 mana? Looks fair or even a bit overpriced to me, doesn't seem overtuned at all.
Seems the support rule applies in the exact transition between: after confirmation but before attack. Same with Lulu.
This is another non intuitively bad way to adress interactions. Its so easy to overlook the timing Taric Leveled Up and forget that doesn't count for that turn.
I played Taric yesterday. He leveled up in the start of the attack, but my support unit died on combat? Very confused. Not sure its a bug or a misplay on my part.
Iceborn Downsides: 1- Cost too much so is hard to find a turn to play it; 2- The longer it takes to play -> less return on the investment; 3- Slow speed, so it can be denied by killing the target.
Iceborn Upsides: 1- Makes Wraithcaller extremely resilient against dmg based board wipes; 2- It will almost always trade 2/1 as there are many untis with 3 attack being played right now but very few with 4 attack.
I am not sure if Iceborn Legacy is worth the slot or not, probably not, thats something that it will demand some experiment.
I feel Risen Mists is just a bit too expensive for what it does. Sure, it is a good adition to Mistwraith concept but i am afraid it won't make it much better unless it gets more support.
The only way i can picture a Mistwraith deck working is through Iceborn Legacy But since Iceborn Legacy is a slow card now, i would not get my hopes up to pull this combo off consistently.
I guess your assumptions are mostly correct. I am always up to new ideas so it will be fun to see if this structure works or not. Worst case, Riot can always change it later on as they see fit.
I am interested to know how the company is going to keep new content appealing once the card pool gets really big. A standard structure like Magic/Hearthstone won't do for this game, given that some Champions are too reliant on certain cards/mechanics to work.
I'm probably going to be in the minority here but I feel like a lot of the cards being introduced seem a little under the power level required to be playable.
I usually don't do those kind of posts anymore as i quickly realized from past experiences that players don't like negativism/realism related to new cards/content. So those posts, even when accurate, will often be downvoted to oblivium. And God help you when you get one wrong... your sentence is being flamed to death!
That being said, the new cards might work but i also share the thought most of them are not powerfull enough to see competitive play. So i'll stick alongside with you on this one Nifty. Take my upvote at the very least ;)
A much more significant emphasis put on the Support mechanic (which I always felt was one of the more interesting - yet least utilized - mechanics in the game)
Personally, i am a bit worried the new Support cards might be a bit too hard to balance. If the support units have too little stats, they will be too undewhelming and see no play; but if they have a bit too much, might become a tempo problem that needs answers as soon as they hit the field or will snowball out of control. With the lack of cheap removals and only a few regions having acess to decent board clear spells, Snowball cards are way more dangerous in LOR then any other CCG.
Ultimately, I fear this reflects a continued reality with Riot's dev process, where they feel like they can constantly dump a lot of new content because they're constantly rebalancing the game. It's a philosophy that seems to emphasize "exciting new content" over "fun, balanced gameplay." In that way, it feels like there's a certainly lack of ownership in the quality of the initial work, and that bothers me.
I agree dumping too much new content at once is bad. But given what we see on patch notes, i don't think they are getting out of their philosophy. I believe they must be satisfied about the balance subject right now, so most of their work can be focused on other priorities like developing new content to attract players, don't you think?
I also believe one of Riot's goals is to make sure every Champion has at least 1 playable deck to call it home. And IMHO, they did a spectacular job on that regard! (Vladimir aside).
But why Porofly over Solari Soldier?
Spirit's Refuge is probably more usefull then Herald of Spring and has better sinergy with Lulu and Zed
3 copies of Hush is way too much. I don't even think one copy is any good.
Not only Hush lasts for only 1 turn but also you don't want to stall or trade units or waste mana on multiple casts.
So ladder is not for you, we get it.
There are 3 core concepts in a card game:
1- Card Advantage: Convert mana (resource) into extra cards in hand (resource)
2- Tempo: Convert mana (resource) into board advantage (champions, units, direct damage, heal, etc)
3- Efficiency: How nuch BANG you get for the ammount of resource spent
The 3 concepts are VERY tied together.
Card Advantage is meaningless without Tempo, and Tempo is meaningless without Efficiency.
A player may hold 8+ cards in hand then his oponnent, but if he can't transition this advantage into board preassure (tempo) in a reasonable time (efficiency), then its all useless.
Now answering your question: Your example is not card advantage. One unit cost 3, and the other unit costs 6. So the result is a 9 mana unit that DO NOT generate any kind of card advantage, worth 9/9 stats plus some Elusive + Lifesteal.
1- Zero card advantage (its a cycle card at best. Cycle: a card that goes even by drawing just 1 card to replace itself)
2- Extremely bad tempo card on T3 but extremely good tempo on T6
3- Good efficiency (9 mana worth 9/9 stats that has Elusive + Lifesteal that can be played on T6 looks good to me)
My point is that you need to see all the context together.
First: cards that replace themselves are already in the game from day one. You need to be more specific and name said cards for any productive discussion.
Second: Targon has 0 CARD DRAW SPELLS. I have no idea what your card advantage notion even is. The best Targon can do is cycle and stay even outside of generating Gem cards. So i think giving Targon a different mechanic like generate/replace/multiple casts instead of the standard "Draw 2" spell is a nice idea for region identity.
Third: Taric would take Ezreal over Karma any day.
Silence removes ALL TEXT (Any buffs/Keywords/Ephemeral/etc) with the exception of Spellshield.
In the case of Sunburst, The silence happens first (so a unit with extra health loses all buffs) then damage happens after.
In other words, any unit with a base health of 6 or less will die to that spell AS LONG its the first card played on that turn AND the target unit doesn't have Spellshield.
Amazing post as always Meisterz. Fully agree with you, just want to add my thoughts about this part.
I present one way to analyze if Solari Priestess is fair or not:
-> Solari Priestess mana (3) + Selected card mana (x) + 1/2 body <-
Example: Selected Spell -> Falling Comet
3 mana + 6 mana = 9 mana
Now ask yourself: Is it a 9 mana obliteration that summons a 1/2 body at slow speed worth 9 mana?
Looks fair or even a bit overpriced to me, doesn't seem overtuned at all.
Looks interesting
Seems the support rule applies in the exact transition between: after confirmation but before attack. Same with Lulu.
This is another non intuitively bad way to adress interactions.
Its so easy to overlook the timing Taric Leveled Up and forget that doesn't count for that turn.
I played Taric yesterday. He leveled up in the start of the attack, but my support unit died on combat? Very confused.
Not sure its a bug or a misplay on my part.
All decks on ladder right now are sub-optimal... to the point games are so soft i can safely get away griding with a Purrsuit of Perfection deck:
Even if we find those 2 cards being broken within a week, there isn't yet an optimal opressive deck to fully abuse them.
Guess Braum will have to shave his mustache now
Seems like a nice list to start
Nirast: The deck has 7 ways to proc Rex (5x Warning Shot 2x Make it Rain) + Elusives + Miss Fortune
Iceborn Downsides:
1- Cost too much so is hard to find a turn to play it;
2- The longer it takes to play -> less return on the investment;
3- Slow speed, so it can be denied by killing the target.
Iceborn Upsides:
1- Makes Wraithcaller extremely resilient against dmg based board wipes;
2- It will almost always trade 2/1 as there are many untis with 3 attack being played right now but very few with 4 attack.
I am not sure if Iceborn Legacy is worth the slot or not, probably not, thats something that it will demand some experiment.
Your decklist looks somewhat decent at the very least, may actually work.
I would include 1x or 2x Atrocity.
I feel Risen Mists is just a bit too expensive for what it does.
Sure, it is a good adition to Mistwraith concept but i am afraid it won't make it much better unless it gets more support.
The only way i can picture a Mistwraith deck working is through Iceborn Legacy
But since Iceborn Legacy is a slow card now, i would not get my hopes up to pull this combo off consistently.
I guess your assumptions are mostly correct.
I am always up to new ideas so it will be fun to see if this structure works or not.
Worst case, Riot can always change it later on as they see fit.
I am interested to know how the company is going to keep new content appealing once the card pool gets really big.
A standard structure like Magic/Hearthstone won't do for this game, given that some Champions are too reliant on certain cards/mechanics to work.
I usually don't do those kind of posts anymore as i quickly realized from past experiences that players don't like negativism/realism related to new cards/content. So those posts, even when accurate, will often be downvoted to oblivium. And God help you when you get one wrong... your sentence is being flamed to death!
That being said, the new cards might work but i also share the thought most of them are not powerfull enough to see competitive play.
So i'll stick alongside with you on this one Nifty. Take my upvote at the very least ;)
Welcome back!
Your post is pretty much Spot On Meisterz.
Just 2 points i want to discuss:
Personally, i am a bit worried the new Support cards might be a bit too hard to balance.
If the support units have too little stats, they will be too undewhelming and see no play; but if they have a bit too much, might become a tempo problem that needs answers as soon as they hit the field or will snowball out of control.
With the lack of cheap removals and only a few regions having acess to decent board clear spells, Snowball cards are way more dangerous in LOR then any other CCG.
I agree dumping too much new content at once is bad. But given what we see on patch notes, i don't think they are getting out of their philosophy.
I believe they must be satisfied about the balance subject right now, so most of their work can be focused on other priorities like developing new content to attract players, don't you think?
I also believe one of Riot's goals is to make sure every Champion has at least 1 playable deck to call it home.
And IMHO, they did a spectacular job on that regard! (Vladimir aside).
Usually 70-80% of your card pool draft on expedition should be around the 1-3 mana range to avoid inconsistencies.
Last match you get to repick up to 5 cards to avoid exactly the situation you are complaining.
My thoughts: Trundle is a troll card