His is more like just good mono shurima follower stuff, and mines more turbo sundisc control.
His looks like more conventional list if you want a more straight forward play pattern.
Also as for my list you forget Xerath equals 3 more rite of arcane and we can tutor extra copies with the 4 drop. Like my big concern is like how do you beat deep, or like Freijord control or just like poros.
Like it really depends, like he thinks he can like level Azir naturally and I find post nerfs that a tall order especially because sundisc limits your board space. So give his a shot and see how many times you flip disc.
I don't know how to post decks like you do, but I have been running this list since Bandle city came out. CQBQCBIKYAAQGBIHA4FQ4BYEA4BQ2HBFEZGGMAICAQDQCLIBAMCAOPSIMU
I don't netdeck either unless it's an aggro deck I can't be bothered to test run 100 times to see what's optimal. Unworthy is bad because it's a slow speed removal spell, that's all. Ascended rise is a bad card because it's a dead card in your hand most of the time if you haven't played or drawn both champs, and also it is slow speed so control decks can wait for you to play it then remove your azir/xerath so you get an instaloss worth of tempo.
Ascended rise is a terrible card, and so is unworthy... mono shurima feels pretty decent to me vs other midrange/control matchups tho... I think the main problem with the deck is that it has 0 decent healing options... I run one devoted council but that's because I have no other option. Any form of aggro/ burn deletes the deck though.
I appreciate the way the game is balanced now... I can see why people would prefer Metas like azirelia threshus and lisstrundle for the rock paper scissors gameplay and not having to worry about losing to meme decks, but for me I prefer to be able to use all factions and have half the cards in the game be useful enough to go in a competitive deck I can play on the ladder/gauntlet.
All those cards you just listed are core region cards and are unlikely to change. Like how is demacia answering temo without Sharp sight?
All those cards are core to region? I mean if we are talking about Sharpsight sure but Nami a core card to Bilgwater? Lost soul a core card for Noxus? That doesn't make any sense.
And since when being a core card means that you don't get nerfed? Pale Cascade and Hush are both core to Targon and they both got nerfed.
How is Demacia supposed to deal with Teemo? You mean beside Single Combat, Fleetfeather Tracker and all the challenger unit's available to the region?
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Sparkle fly is a meme
A meme card being played in a tier 1 deck? I don't even know what to say to this. Maybe it's better if you just see what this card can do in this deck :
If Poppy wasn't Demcia aligned there would MAYBE be only one or 2 decent decks splashing demacia like the last 3-4 expansions. Let Sharp Sight be lol. Also I wouldn't mind letting Pale cascade, The Fangs, and Starshaping nerfs get reverted. Idk why they even nerfed the last two.
I agree with Hidden Pathways getting a nerf, as it is blatant powercreep on Deep Meditation. Probably should be 6 mana that goes to 4, or you need to create 4 cards. Otterpus probably doesn't need Attune. Aloof Travelers is just an obnoxious card, even if they nerf the stats or something it makes running high mana cost champs useless. Which encourages a lot of annoying aggro decks. Nami's levelup condition probably could use a harsh nerf or rework, although I think her levelup payoff is pretty cool if it isn't useable on turn 4 constantly. Otterpus losing attune might help with this as well. Draven/Sion will most likely get nerfed regardless of what people's opinions are of it, but Idk if Lost Soul is really the problem, probably should look at it after the deck gets nerfed as a whole.
Man these "bad" poppy decks I made sure do win a lot just started my climb after meeming hard easy gold. Then on to Plat and we'll see if I have the patience for Diamond again depending on how busy I get with RL.
All without a single meta deck 😝
So much for "conjecture"
Nobody said your decks were bad. And nobody cares which decks you use climbing through gold. The "conjecture" has no connection with how your personal climb was on the ladder, but it does connect with how you ignore the winrates of certain decks and just say they are bad anyways.
I'm surprised people don't run Sej/ Renekton more, its pretty strong. I'm trying to get to Diamond with a Sej/ Teemo deck haha (plat 3right now), but it's probably just worse than yours in most respects.
I mean, Blade Dance is a busted mechanic, and I don't think the devs are going to fix it. This mechanic by itself entirely shifted the meta to what you describe it, and nothing else. Atrocity needs to be a slow speed spell, Idk why they nerfed it to 8 mana but that changes nothing essentially. I don't think the game is going to get any better in the future if the devs make stuff like pre nerf Go Hard, and blade dance/Syncopation, playtest it internally, and are like, "Hey this seems balanced, lets throw it in the game." Reminds me of how Hearthstone got progressively worse balance-wise after they released Patches. I just assume the devs are good at designing creative things, but they haven't played enough competitive card games to realize how to balance cards.
If you want to beat go hard you just could play one of the new scars decks. with the help of The Scargrounds go hard is practically useless and with Bloodsworn Pledge you will make your units survive PYB aswell
Ironically, the one midrange deck that has a good matchup vs Go hard decks is the FTR Freljord midrange deck, which does not need to run bottom barrel Scars followers to tech against the card. The Overwhelm units are tanky enough to not need anything but battle fury or other buffs to chunk the opponent out most of the time. The problem with Go Hard is not that it is too strong vs every type of deck, it just shuts down way too many strategies and gives too much value for one mana. Usually any card that is super oppressive to midrange decks with decent winrates vs aggro ends up making the meta feel really stale and drags out game times. Thus why half the Shadow isles lategame control cards/ Ionian elusives got nerfed in this games' genesis.
Pack Your Bags only activates on the 4th Go Hard cast Assuming drawing an extra card cost 2 mana on average at best, the total cost for the activation is: 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 mana + 4 mana for each cast = 10 mana
Lest not forget, it requires drawing and casting ALL the 4 copies or no deal Looks a fair card to me
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Where did you get the math that drawing a card costs 2 mana? Go Hard card requires 4 total mana, including using spell mana to activate. Would you have used the same logic to defend jade idol as well? Each card draw costs 2 mana?
Well, you could make an argument for Pack Your Bags being better than Ruination if they were the same mana cost, the card is the most ridiculous thing I've seen since Patches in Hearthstone. Most of the people in LOR Discord defend the card though for some reason. Apparently shuffling 2 copies into your deck and pulling it 3 times is debilitatingly hard to do for them. Even if you can make an argument to say it's not overpowered, you can't make an argument that it isn't a gross amount of powercreep for a one mana spell. The best solution for this card is to probably remove it from the game actually. It makes pretty much any midrange deck nonviable, and is going to still be oppressive with any small nerfs it gets.
I use a Vlad deck with Tough followers and Demacia/Noxus buff cards... It has a weaker lategame than my Elites or Freljord midrange, but the followers are harder to remove early on, and make good trades/ burst damage with the 2 mana buffs/ Single combat. Culls as well help you control the board early on. The main reason why I don't think you see Vlad is because Go hard/ Pack your bags stops most midrange decks from being worth running.
Maye you're reading it wrong. Cuts it in half rounded up could mean 0.5 -> 1, hence it does 1 damage.
You're right that at first you'd think it's meaning it rounds down to 0. I like the other way, so long as it remains in place.
If that's what they meant, then they chose the absolute WORST way to explain it, lol. I dont really think it makes sense anyways, because Ledros works the exact same way he used to. Before his change he could kill from 1 to 0. After his change he kills form 1 to 0. Which is pretty stupid by the way, a half of any number(besides 0) never turns into 0, nomatter how many times you halve it.
The card works as intended. The summoned unit has the properties of a unit, whereas the spell has properties of any other fast spell. Whatever spell gets played last activates first (outside of burst). The summoned living shadow plays like any other summon unit card.
Well while elusive decks probably are a little too strong right now, mostly because of deny and less because of elusive, the deck you are using is objectively bad, it would be like throwing a bunch of aggro and low cost deathrattle cards in a res priest deck. the reason you lose games is absolutely the deck. Furthermore, even if you had a proper control deck, you don't know what stuff to play around yet. it's probably just better to make an actual Elise aggro deck until you have been playing more
I haven't found it to be oppressive, and it's often a dead card in my hand. I'd be curious to hear about its stats before taking action. I do like someone's point that it bends the meta away from control. I think one thing that would help is clarification on which kinds of ally abilities show up in the spell queue and can be countered. Some "Play" effects go in the queue and others don't. I think a nice way to balance the card would be to give it "refill your opponent's spell mana." That way it punishes big ally "Play" effects (but they still get the big ally), but isn't as devastating when they got nothing off their big spell.
It's "often" a dead card in your hand???? I find that extremely hard to believe. The stats might make it not seem that bad, since everyone has started to avoid running any non-burst spells over 5 mana because of it already. The card needs a change if the devs don't want to make the meta super stale, along with 1/4th of the library being a liability to use in your deck, in the genesis of the game.
For the sake of provoking more discussion, I'm curious what people think of alternative balancing measures, such as:
- Giving the opponent a card draw
- Refunding some or all of the opponent's mana expenditure in casting the countered spell
- Locking you (the Deny player) out of playing any other spells that round
- Stopping you (the Deny player) from banking any spell mana that round
- Can't cast it if you have any non-Ionian allies in play
I could go on. I'm not suggesting any of these are a good idea - just spitballing.
I think I would rather have these type of alternatives than a hard nerf to deny, too. I actually dont think the card is overpowered, it just hard limits the type of spells you can put in your deck, which is annoying. It's also annoying to see everyone use Ionia as a secondary class on the ladder adding the same 9 cards.
I don't know how to post decks like you do, but I have been running this list since Bandle city came out. CQBQCBIKYAAQGBIHA4FQ4BYEA4BQ2HBFEZGGMAICAQDQCLIBAMCAOPSIMU
I don't netdeck either unless it's an aggro deck I can't be bothered to test run 100 times to see what's optimal. Unworthy is bad because it's a slow speed removal spell, that's all. Ascended rise is a bad card because it's a dead card in your hand most of the time if you haven't played or drawn both champs, and also it is slow speed so control decks can wait for you to play it then remove your azir/xerath so you get an instaloss worth of tempo.
You like card imbalance? No problem, Hearthstone devs got your back. As for LOR imma hard pass on that.
Ascended rise is a terrible card, and so is unworthy... mono shurima feels pretty decent to me vs other midrange/control matchups tho... I think the main problem with the deck is that it has 0 decent healing options... I run one devoted council but that's because I have no other option. Any form of aggro/ burn deletes the deck though.
I appreciate the way the game is balanced now... I can see why people would prefer Metas like azirelia threshus and lisstrundle for the rock paper scissors gameplay and not having to worry about losing to meme decks, but for me I prefer to be able to use all factions and have half the cards in the game be useful enough to go in a competitive deck I can play on the ladder/gauntlet.
If Poppy wasn't Demcia aligned there would MAYBE be only one or 2 decent decks splashing demacia like the last 3-4 expansions. Let Sharp Sight be lol. Also I wouldn't mind letting Pale cascade, The Fangs, and Starshaping nerfs get reverted. Idk why they even nerfed the last two.
I agree with Hidden Pathways getting a nerf, as it is blatant powercreep on Deep Meditation. Probably should be 6 mana that goes to 4, or you need to create 4 cards. Otterpus probably doesn't need Attune. Aloof Travelers is just an obnoxious card, even if they nerf the stats or something it makes running high mana cost champs useless. Which encourages a lot of annoying aggro decks. Nami's levelup condition probably could use a harsh nerf or rework, although I think her levelup payoff is pretty cool if it isn't useable on turn 4 constantly. Otterpus losing attune might help with this as well. Draven/Sion will most likely get nerfed regardless of what people's opinions are of it, but Idk if Lost Soul is really the problem, probably should look at it after the deck gets nerfed as a whole.
Nobody said your decks were bad. And nobody cares which decks you use climbing through gold. The "conjecture" has no connection with how your personal climb was on the ladder, but it does connect with how you ignore the winrates of certain decks and just say they are bad anyways.
I'm surprised people don't run Sej/ Renekton more, its pretty strong. I'm trying to get to Diamond with a Sej/ Teemo deck haha (plat 3right now), but it's probably just worse than yours in most respects.
I mean, Blade Dance is a busted mechanic, and I don't think the devs are going to fix it. This mechanic by itself entirely shifted the meta to what you describe it, and nothing else. Atrocity needs to be a slow speed spell, Idk why they nerfed it to 8 mana but that changes nothing essentially. I don't think the game is going to get any better in the future if the devs make stuff like pre nerf Go Hard, and blade dance/Syncopation, playtest it internally, and are like, "Hey this seems balanced, lets throw it in the game." Reminds me of how Hearthstone got progressively worse balance-wise after they released Patches. I just assume the devs are good at designing creative things, but they haven't played enough competitive card games to realize how to balance cards.
Ironically, the one midrange deck that has a good matchup vs Go hard decks is the FTR Freljord midrange deck, which does not need to run bottom barrel Scars followers to tech against the card. The Overwhelm units are tanky enough to not need anything but battle fury or other buffs to chunk the opponent out most of the time. The problem with Go Hard is not that it is too strong vs every type of deck, it just shuts down way too many strategies and gives too much value for one mana. Usually any card that is super oppressive to midrange decks with decent winrates vs aggro ends up making the meta feel really stale and drags out game times. Thus why half the Shadow isles lategame control cards/ Ionian elusives got nerfed in this games' genesis.
Well, you could make an argument for Pack Your Bags being better than Ruination if they were the same mana cost, the card is the most ridiculous thing I've seen since Patches in Hearthstone. Most of the people in LOR Discord defend the card though for some reason. Apparently shuffling 2 copies into your deck and pulling it 3 times is debilitatingly hard to do for them. Even if you can make an argument to say it's not overpowered, you can't make an argument that it isn't a gross amount of powercreep for a one mana spell. The best solution for this card is to probably remove it from the game actually. It makes pretty much any midrange deck nonviable, and is going to still be oppressive with any small nerfs it gets.
I use a Vlad deck with Tough followers and Demacia/Noxus buff cards... It has a weaker lategame than my Elites or Freljord midrange, but the followers are harder to remove early on, and make good trades/ burst damage with the 2 mana buffs/ Single combat. Culls as well help you control the board early on. The main reason why I don't think you see Vlad is because Go hard/ Pack your bags stops most midrange decks from being worth running.
If that's what they meant, then they chose the absolute WORST way to explain it, lol. I dont really think it makes sense anyways, because Ledros works the exact same way he used to. Before his change he could kill from 1 to 0. After his change he kills form 1 to 0. Which is pretty stupid by the way, a half of any number(besides 0) never turns into 0, nomatter how many times you halve it.
Hmm I get it now, they are lazy AND incompetent. Glad thats cleared up.
But why? It works the exact same as before. Also half of 1 is not 0, maybe these devs didnt get past 6th grade?
The card works as intended. The summoned unit has the properties of a unit, whereas the spell has properties of any other fast spell. Whatever spell gets played last activates first (outside of burst). The summoned living shadow plays like any other summon unit card.
Well while elusive decks probably are a little too strong right now, mostly because of deny and less because of elusive, the deck you are using is objectively bad, it would be like throwing a bunch of aggro and low cost deathrattle cards in a res priest deck. the reason you lose games is absolutely the deck. Furthermore, even if you had a proper control deck, you don't know what stuff to play around yet. it's probably just better to make an actual Elise aggro deck until you have been playing more
It's "often" a dead card in your hand???? I find that extremely hard to believe. The stats might make it not seem that bad, since everyone has started to avoid running any non-burst spells over 5 mana because of it already. The card needs a change if the devs don't want to make the meta super stale, along with 1/4th of the library being a liability to use in your deck, in the genesis of the game.
I think I would rather have these type of alternatives than a hard nerf to deny, too. I actually dont think the card is overpowered, it just hard limits the type of spells you can put in your deck, which is annoying. It's also annoying to see everyone use Ionia as a secondary class on the ladder adding the same 9 cards.