Eternal formats in CCGs typically have very low turn-counters - games are decided, one-way-or-another, by turn four or five. That isn't to say that all games of Vintage MtG, or Modern, end on turn four or five - but fast-aggro might end it, while slower decks will have stabilised, or combo decks will have drawn into their win-condition. You need to achieve inevitability by the end of the early-game, or beginning of the mid-game. If your deck doesn't do its "big thing" consistently by turn four or five, it isn't going to flourish in any game-play environment in which the majority of decks do. There isn't anything wrong with having games decided quickly - provided there are lots of different types of decks, winning games in lots of different types of ways.
Importantly, there isn't any sort of fix to having a low fundamental turn - if MtG or Blizzard nerfed a hundred cards in their eternal formats, new decks would be found that achieve early inevitability in a few days or weeks. High fundamental turns are really only to be found in curated formats with low card-counts. In other words - if you don't like games regularly being decided before turn six, eternal formats will never appeal to you.
I don't mind short games. I certainly don't like long ones.
I don't mind fighting toe-to-toe for 6 turns and lose. I just dislike losing by turn-6 without having decent chances to do anything except being countered turn by turn until I die.
If Wild is supposed to be Wild, we deserve at least WILD TECH CARDS.
That is, good tech cards, actually capable of consistently disrupt a specific strategy (more effective the more specific a strategy is), AND being still decent drops in every other game.
Actually, if we had an efficient (2 or 3 mana) version of Eater of Secrets that provides HEALING, and a Golakka Crawler for Mechs, Wild would be almost ok.
A change to ALL Mutate effects, to consider spent mana of the target (saved as a green stat together with atk and hp), instead of the basic cost. But this would be too good to be true.
Now Faceless Corruptor. Possibly more powerful than both. Why?!? Did we really need such a card? Especially token decks?
Why should boardbuilding be bound to a sick card draw RNG on such a powerhouse? Micro-management of stats is made nearly irrelevant.
(Fungalmancer delivers equal power, but with DOUBLE minion requirement, hence why it correctly escaped the nerfbat)
On a larger scale, cheap and efficient Rush is growing obnoxius. It's more efficient to hold and Rush than trying and building your own initiative.
Sure, spells in Control decks always did it. But spells neutralize the board. Increasingly efficient and widespread Rush can actually overthrow the initiative, neutralizing AND building at the same time.
I do hope the incoming nerfs will help that, but i have little faith at this point...
I am in love with Treant Druid (Aggro Wild version): micro-synergies and anti-synergies with Garden Gnome, Aeroponics and Living Mana make it extremely exciting to play. And fairly good.
Even Hunter feels meta-viable. I might include double Rat Trap.
Quest Mage improved, and might finally rise as anti-Control, having a slightly better Aggro matchup now.
Ancharrr may be better than i thought in Wild PW: maybe slower start, but literally explosive onslaught. It could seriously revive the deck, and i am tempted to craft it.
These two things could actually weaken Secret Mage: they will be forced to choose between anti-Aggro and anti-Control builds. Players will still play it alot, until they find out it's not so straightforward anymore, and eventually drop in numbers towards a more varied meta... Or maybe not.
I am still trying to figure out a smart build for Embiggen and/or Breath of Dreams Druid, but i feel these archetypes are still too raw, and lack some serious support (ie consistency and/or some clear wincondition), especially in Wild. Delaying board development for raw stats just doesn't feel good enough. I can't even get past the theorycraft process.
But the value of veterans or exclusivity is also in how hard something is/was to earn.
Something that just requires you to be in the right place at the right time could FEEL exclusive, but it is NOT VALUABLE at all.
I repeat, while i understand in principle, we should also look at the substance of things. Tyrande was not hard to earn, she was basically free, it has no golden age trait (ie beta players), so her value is little to none.
This is not 1k portraits given for free to everyone.
limited-time means "impossible to earn anymore" no matter how easy it was to obtain so "Impossible to obtain now" makes it valuable. "was" from now.
1k portraits are meaningless. They are at lesser tier after basic ones. Everyone will obtain those in time.
And yes; In my eyes, the most valuable piece of my collection is golden Gelbin Mekkatorque but it is not guaranteed that blizzard won't give it away to keep others in the game after Ragnaros card back and Tyrande Skin. The point is this already.
Also Gelbin Mekkatorque also wasn't hard to obtain but it doesn't change the truth that it is one of the rarest cards of the game with Golden Elite Tauren Chieftain. People might not give value for them but it's valuable for me and I'm sad that I couldn't obtain Elite Tauren Chieftain because Blizzcon 2013 was in a different country but never whined about it.
But refunds are given for objective value. Not subjective.
Limited amount of time doesn't necessarily mean never again.
Should we get a refund every time a favourite deck falls in meta tiers?
But the value of veterans or exclusivity is also in how hard something is/was to earn.
Something that just requires you to be in the right place at the right time could FEEL exclusive, but it is NOT VALUABLE at all.
I repeat, while i understand in principle, we should also look at the substance of things. Tyrande was not hard to earn, she was basically free, it has no golden age trait (ie beta players), so her value is little to none.
This is not 1k portraits given for free to everyone.
Lack of answers in few turns cannot be solved, maybe, but it can be normalized by printing cheaper and more efficient Tech cards.
Obviously, I'll NEVER find answers, if the answer for brokenness does not even exist, or if it is highly inefficient.
They keep printing obviously flawed cards, why not printing equally powerful tech cards, regularly over time?
Standard would be mostly unaffected, because the powerlevel there is hardly as high as to require tech cards at all.
But Wild would be viable for a wider spectrum of players, much more than pure Spikes or pure memers...
And with hardly any need of nerfs.
I don't mind short games. I certainly don't like long ones.
I don't mind fighting toe-to-toe for 6 turns and lose. I just dislike losing by turn-6 without having decent chances to do anything except being countered turn by turn until I die.
Sometimes even dropping Eater of Secrets is insufficient.
If Wild is supposed to be Wild, we deserve at least WILD TECH CARDS.
That is, good tech cards, actually capable of consistently disrupt a specific strategy (more effective the more specific a strategy is), AND being still decent drops in every other game.
Yeah, of course the new anti-secret should cost less and gave a proportionate body. Say 2/2/3 or 2/2/2. With face healing.
Eater buffing its own body is nearly useless in the economy of a game against a Secret Mage.
Actually, if we had an efficient (2 or 3 mana) version of Eater of Secrets that provides HEALING, and a Golakka Crawler for Mechs, Wild would be almost ok.
A change to ALL Mutate effects, to consider spent mana of the target (saved as a green stat together with atk and hp), instead of the basic cost. But this would be too good to be true.
So my bet goes like this:
PS: i am not even sure how this stuff passed internal testing...
Replacement is meta-dependant, and i still have to understand it.
So far it seems the only relevant novelty in the meta is Pirate Warrior.
Right now i think i'd try Golakka Crawler,Explosive Trap, Bear Trap.
Yay, thanks for the mention!
Quest Mage is still a bit inconsistent about survival, but it's hard to counter past turns 7-8.
It plays the role that was historically played by Aluneth Mage: Burn vulnerable to Aggro.
Bonemare: obvious powerhouse. Nerfed.
Corridor Creeper: obvious powerhouse. Nerfed.
Now Faceless Corruptor. Possibly more powerful than both. Why?!? Did we really need such a card? Especially token decks?
Why should boardbuilding be bound to a sick card draw RNG on such a powerhouse? Micro-management of stats is made nearly irrelevant.
(Fungalmancer delivers equal power, but with DOUBLE minion requirement, hence why it correctly escaped the nerfbat)
On a larger scale, cheap and efficient Rush is growing obnoxius. It's more efficient to hold and Rush than trying and building your own initiative.
Sure, spells in Control decks always did it. But spells neutralize the board. Increasingly efficient and widespread Rush can actually overthrow the initiative, neutralizing AND building at the same time.
I do hope the incoming nerfs will help that, but i have little faith at this point...
On a sidenote: how retarded is Faceless Corruptor?
It's not a card. It's a brainfart.
A completely unnecessary one too.
Crossing fingers for Wild (EvoShaman, but also Secret Mage)
#PrayForWild
No Highlander Ramp Druid?
I'm having a blast with it in Wild.
I am in love with Treant Druid (Aggro Wild version): micro-synergies and anti-synergies with Garden Gnome, Aeroponics and Living Mana make it extremely exciting to play. And fairly good.
Even Hunter feels meta-viable. I might include double Rat Trap.
Quest Mage improved, and might finally rise as anti-Control, having a slightly better Aggro matchup now.
Ancharrr may be better than i thought in Wild PW: maybe slower start, but literally explosive onslaught. It could seriously revive the deck, and i am tempted to craft it.
These two things could actually weaken Secret Mage: they will be forced to choose between anti-Aggro and anti-Control builds. Players will still play it alot, until they find out it's not so straightforward anymore, and eventually drop in numbers towards a more varied meta... Or maybe not.
I am still trying to figure out a smart build for Embiggen and/or Breath of Dreams Druid, but i feel these archetypes are still too raw, and lack some serious support (ie consistency and/or some clear wincondition), especially in Wild. Delaying board development for raw stats just doesn't feel good enough. I can't even get past the theorycraft process.
But refunds are given for objective value. Not subjective.
Limited amount of time doesn't necessarily mean never again.
Should we get a refund every time a favourite deck falls in meta tiers?
Is it supposed to release at 19 CET?
Strong Tempo bonuses/swings based on deck restriction.
It's basically the same design as Highlander.
Just Pure flavor instead of Highlander.
Which is why i said it needs another card similar to Zealot - not to Crusader (which is useless).
An early Pure Swarmer card for example, say turn-2.
I STRONGLY disagree with Pure Paladin being an uninteresting archetype.
Flavor-wise, it is actually one of the most interesting archetypes EVER.
It just needs some extra support card to mimic what Retribution Paladin is in WoW.
I'd love it if Pure Paladin becomes the new Aggro Paladin.
Another card on the same line as Lightforged Zealot could be enough.
But the value of veterans or exclusivity is also in how hard something is/was to earn.
Something that just requires you to be in the right place at the right time could FEEL exclusive, but it is NOT VALUABLE at all.
I repeat, while i understand in principle, we should also look at the substance of things. Tyrande was not hard to earn, she was basically free, it has no golden age trait (ie beta players), so her value is little to none.
This is not 1k portraits given for free to everyone.
Well i do understand the point in the OP.
But at the end of the day, it's just cosmetics.
If you spent money on it, you would have anyway, even if they told you it would have been freeware in some years time.
You wanted it, you bought it. That's it.
Exclusiveness is never eternal.
And the value of cosmetics is just that which you give them. Because nobody cares of the cosmetics of their opponent.
Cheers everyone!
This reveal season looked like a success for OOC!