Sun Disk decks is the Definition of a timmy deck: it has big splashy effects that are unlikely to work out but win you the game if you should get to do it.
Also it's about watching ~movies~ level up animations.
However: the best sun disk deck I can think of runs 2 regions and no sun disks
Nifty kinda has a point when he says that nerfing specific archetypes out of tier 1 status often results in just 1 deck less being viable without improving the rest of the metagame.
The thing that riot has to be aware of is: what archetypes are oppressive and completely devalue a legitimate strategy?
What I mean by that: should a meme deck get crushed by tier 1 decks? Most of the times it should. So if the majority of meme decks loose to a certain tier 1 deck that's not a problem. If strategies that proven itself in the past or that are overall 51%+ winrate strategies and if those can't win a certain popular matchup it's something you have to keep an eye on.
If a matchup is so polarized because 1 deck does exactly which is the weakness of the other deck it's more tolerable than a deck just doing it's thing leaving the other deck no chance to stop it.
Examples of problematic decks were therefore: Go Hard, AzirIrelia P&Z Noxus burn and TLC
Decks not being that problematic were ShenFiora(although Fiora herself is problematic)
With nightfall I think that the theme is quite independant from it's champions which is why you see several stables like Pale Cascade being used outside of nightfall decks.
Nocturne and Diana more have the purpose to enable a deck based on the nightfall mechanic.
Lurkers however... don't let me get started with this parasitic mechanic that basically takes away deckbuilding and allows to autopilot the deck.
Nothing about lurkers exite me from the lack of interaction over reliance on lurk triggers (often rng) to it's play patterns of just fullswing overstatted units until eighter the opponent is dead or you run out of units... if any mechanic feels like it should not be a part of the game (because it oversimplyfies the game)I think lurk as a whole takes the cake
While Targon's invoke and Bandle's Manifest indeed are very similar they however differ quite clearly.
Targon's invoke is limited to a small set of cards and since many invoke cards also fetch from a subset of this small set it's quite predictable for both players.
Bandle City's manifest however gives access to a set of cards dependant on the player's region choices.
The manifest cardpool tends to be way larger than the invoke pool.
The consequence is that the outcomes of an manifest trigger is very hard to predict for both players resulting in a huge highroll/lowroll potential for the mechanic and a lower counterplay potential for the opponent.
I therefore think that invoke has the better design out of these 2 mechanics.
P&Z's card generation is different however since those eighter create a specific card like Poro Cannon and Iterative Improvement or a completely random one.
Creating cards in your deck (which is a p&z thing aswell) isn't something i consider as card creation since you don't get access to those cards without other carddraw.
I disagree with Zilean since predict was released first in shurima and also has the largest support there. However Ekko is proably the champion you meant since predict never really was a P&Z theme and doesn't seem to become a p&z theme anytime soon.
I know the devs want to release a champion for every region to keep the balance between regions but if that means that a theme meant for 1 region is split upon 2 regions to support 2 different champions with the same theme it has to lead to forced pairs.
My solution for that they should make more use of the multiregion concept on support cards. Ziggs in Shurima bandle? Why not make many of his followers dual region aswell making only winconditions like The Arsenal mono region.
An other approach would be to release champion pairs for the same region giving up the approach to release a champion for 1 region at a time and although this pushes certain regions a lot, it doesn't come with the issue of forced regions pairs since the entire theme is in the same region.
Given that Boomcrew Rookie never Was a problem since he got nerfed to a 1/3 statline and that stonestackers are very similar to that makes me think that it has a reasonable powerlevel.
Lecturing Yordle: how could i have forgotten about this annoying engine? Well how about we nerf his atttack instead of HP? This way it would be a direct compensation for it's indirect damage which seem better imo.
When it comes to Wounded Whiteflame it's obvious that it has too much health. How about switching the statline from 2/4 to 4/2? It would turn the card from an value town to an aggressive 3 drop that might get a lot of value but offen enough won't get there anymore
The issue that I see with bingo's strategy is that Encroaching Mists aren't easily summoned and take a good while to build up.
You usually have to level Kennen faster than turn 6+ to be worth it and this deck proably doesn't get him leveled fast especially if you don't draw Camavoran Soldier who you can't tutor with this list.
Also as I already mentioned the deck doesn't provide a serious payoff for level 2 kennen. Fae Bladetwirler is a quite aweful payoff for Kennen level 2 since getting atk on a 3 health unit without evasion on turn 6+ is nearly meanigless it's not like marks of the storm are dead cards on their own but without overwhelm units, Yasuo or Kinkou Wayfinder i don't see enough profit for Kennen to make sense
I however can say with absolute certainty say that Tail-Cloak Matriarch doesn't belong into this deck.
Like how many recall effects do you play? 6? And 3 of those are reactice recalls.
Like this card is hardly worth in dedicated recall decks but in this list? I feel it downgrades the deck for no good reason and should be replaced with Go Get It if you want to keep the spirit of the card or a Deny if you want to go more into a competetive direction
Also there is in general too little interaction in this deck and neighter Fae Bladetwirler not Mask Mother have enough support to be worth it.
Some issue I also see with Scribe of Sorrows is that he will hit encroaching mist a lot which isn't the greatest hit
Oh and as the final question i would like to know how helpful Kennen actually is in this list.
Stun effects hardly support the deck's theme, also does Kennen still level quite slow because you can't tutor him and the fact that encroaching mists are meant to be summoned in small counts until lategame where leveling Kennen is not worth it anymore (at least in this build)
I feel like Kennen is not worth for the list and that Ahri would be more useful for recalling/recycling you summoning units
That a deck like EzrealKennen even reached 55% with it's extreme playrate is VERY wrong.
If you watched some LoR gameplay in the lower ranks you saw how poorly the deck get's played by a good amount of players and that it lost 10% winrate should be because those "suboptimal" players no longer will win games with the deck.
Once these players switch to easier decks I see the deck's winrate recover. Will it be over 50%?
I can't say and hard decks like ez kennen tend to stay below 50% winrate because casuals don't succeed with it.
But I think this is once again an overreaction caused by players not knowing about nerfs, not being familiar with the deck and the deck obviously being weaker than before.
Still i have a strong believe that ionia will be back on the menue soon
if people actually stop playing ionia just because God-Willow Seedling is less op now and Kinkou Wayfinder is less abusive then that's clearly an overreaction/mistake
Ionia got great new cards if people don't find ways to use them then that's on them
could it be that the actual reason why people stoped playing ionia decks is that streamers haven't come up with new decks to copy paste and/or people just want to take their chance to play old decks before new decks roll around?
Like if your deck was pushed into tier 2-3 by the decks that now got nerfed and now you got a realistic chance to do your thing then you would take this chance wouldn't you?
Overall I feel like ezreal kennen is slowed down enough for aggressive YasuoKennen builds to rush them in time and that's something that I am quite exited about
okay so you are trying to take your chance to kill the lvl 1 Kennens with a Yasuo on curve on turn 5?
Good luck at succeeding with that buddy and not get denied/recalled
I am really not buying this card since it will rarely hits more than 2 units. You rather invoke a 3 mana stun 2 units than using this card that is niche at best
like name a 1 tier deck right now that cares about the 2 power or less clause
It pains me to see that people play yasuo kennen with bandle city as the second region.
Bandle city doesn't support yasuo a lot: you get Cloud StanceLightning Rush and Quicken but is that good enough to justify bandle? Apparently it's not given the deck win's only 40% of games.
Meanwhile if you go targon, get access to nexus heal, Shield Vault (which also buffs yasuo's damage) Hush (which can't be wrong against ezreal kennen) Iula (which makes Fae Bladetwirler actually dangerous) and Solari Sunhawk you will do better for sure.
I didn't find a matchup unwinable with the targon variant and I am confident it is actually decent
forget about what I said about Ahri being good. You kill or stun the unit next to her and she just dies
the broken champion of this expansion is without a doubt Kennen who singlehandedly combines aggro supression, free spellshield procs and in combination with Ezreal a ton of burn damage for free ... as a 1 drop
Sun Disk decks is the Definition of a timmy deck: it has big splashy effects that are unlikely to work out but win you the game if you should get to do it.
Also it's about watching ~movies~ level up animations.
However: the best sun disk deck I can think of runs 2 regions and no sun disks
If anything is amazing about this patch it is that Iceborn Legacy is burst again
Slow speed made the card unplayable. Giving it burst speed back seeems... powerful
poro elusives, freljord bladedance, spider legacy, heimerdinger's legacy?
There is so much to try now and I feel like there will be a some broken deck featuring this card.
Alanzq might stream daily but to me he is not an option worth mentioning.
I only were 2 times on his channel and boy was he arrogant towards his audience.
Sure some might think different on him but to me he is just a douche and I won't watch him even if he is a good player.
However Snnuy and Freshlobster I can recommend since they are decent players and nice at the same time imo.
The reason why even in iron there are quite decent player is that the wast majority of players don't play ranked at all.
If there is no real reason to play ranked casuals won't do it. They will play some PvE some normals and be fine with it.
Ranked is for those who want to prove to themselves that they are decent players so don't expect iron matches to be that easy.
Nifty kinda has a point when he says that nerfing specific archetypes out of tier 1 status often results in just 1 deck less being viable without improving the rest of the metagame.
The thing that riot has to be aware of is: what archetypes are oppressive and completely devalue a legitimate strategy?
What I mean by that: should a meme deck get crushed by tier 1 decks? Most of the times it should. So if the majority of meme decks loose to a certain tier 1 deck that's not a problem. If strategies that proven itself in the past or that are overall 51%+ winrate strategies and if those can't win a certain popular matchup it's something you have to keep an eye on.
If a matchup is so polarized because 1 deck does exactly which is the weakness of the other deck it's more tolerable than a deck just doing it's thing leaving the other deck no chance to stop it.
Examples of problematic decks were therefore: Go Hard, Azir Irelia P&Z Noxus burn and TLC
Decks not being that problematic were Shen Fiora(although Fiora herself is problematic)
With nightfall I think that the theme is quite independant from it's champions which is why you see several stables like Pale Cascade being used outside of nightfall decks.
Nocturne and Diana more have the purpose to enable a deck based on the nightfall mechanic.
Lurkers however... don't let me get started with this parasitic mechanic that basically takes away deckbuilding and allows to autopilot the deck.
Nothing about lurkers exite me from the lack of interaction over reliance on lurk triggers (often rng) to it's play patterns of just fullswing overstatted units until eighter the opponent is dead or you run out of units... if any mechanic feels like it should not be a part of the game (because it oversimplyfies the game)I think lurk as a whole takes the cake
While Targon's invoke and Bandle's Manifest indeed are very similar they however differ quite clearly.
Targon's invoke is limited to a small set of cards and since many invoke cards also fetch from a subset of this small set it's quite predictable for both players.
Bandle City's manifest however gives access to a set of cards dependant on the player's region choices.
The manifest cardpool tends to be way larger than the invoke pool.
The consequence is that the outcomes of an manifest trigger is very hard to predict for both players resulting in a huge highroll/lowroll potential for the mechanic and a lower counterplay potential for the opponent.
I therefore think that invoke has the better design out of these 2 mechanics.
P&Z's card generation is different however since those eighter create a specific card like Poro Cannon and Iterative Improvement or a completely random one.
Creating cards in your deck (which is a p&z thing aswell) isn't something i consider as card creation since you don't get access to those cards without other carddraw.
I disagree with Zilean since predict was released first in shurima and also has the largest support there. However Ekko is proably the champion you meant since predict never really was a P&Z theme and doesn't seem to become a p&z theme anytime soon.
I know the devs want to release a champion for every region to keep the balance between regions but if that means that a theme meant for 1 region is split upon 2 regions to support 2 different champions with the same theme it has to lead to forced pairs.
My solution for that they should make more use of the multiregion concept on support cards. Ziggs in Shurima bandle? Why not make many of his followers dual region aswell making only winconditions like The Arsenal mono region.
An other approach would be to release champion pairs for the same region giving up the approach to release a champion for 1 region at a time and although this pushes certain regions a lot, it doesn't come with the issue of forced regions pairs since the entire theme is in the same region.
Given that Boomcrew Rookie never Was a problem since he got nerfed to a 1/3 statline and that stonestackers are very similar to that makes me think that it has a reasonable powerlevel.
Lecturing Yordle: how could i have forgotten about this annoying engine? Well how about we nerf his atttack instead of HP? This way it would be a direct compensation for it's indirect damage which seem better imo.
When it comes to Wounded Whiteflame it's obvious that it has too much health. How about switching the statline from 2/4 to 4/2? It would turn the card from an value town to an aggressive 3 drop that might get a lot of value but offen enough won't get there anymore
Since we are currently ranting about the meta and since Riot confirmed incoming nerfs for BC how about we brainstorm which nerfs we could think of:
My suggestions:
Otterpus: remove attune 1/1 -> 1/2
Reason: he is a staple in every BC deck and overall too cheap for what he is doing (and hes annoying)
Conchologist: 2/2 -> 2/1 (if Loping Telescope is 2/1 why isn't this guy also?)
Pokey Stick: deal 1 draw 1-> deal 1 to draw 1(make the draw part interruptable allow punishment)
Bandle City Mayor: 3mana -> 4 mana
(It's called the major package for a reason...)
Yordle Captain: 4/4 -> 4/3
Reason:High priority units should be well killable a 4 mana 4/4 is quite hard to kill
Hidden Pathways: requirement: 2 created cards this game -> 4 cards created this game.
Reason if i can fullfill this card's condition on turn 1 by just playing Poro Cannon then the requirement is just too easy
The Bandle Tree: 5 mana -> 6 mana
Reason: i have no better ideas :P
Minimorph: 6 mana-> 5 mana, permanent-> until round end
Reason: make it good at stopping all in strategies but not the death sentence for those
Curious Shellfolk: limit it's effect to once per round
Reason: it provides too much value even for a 6 drop
The issue that I see with bingo's strategy is that Encroaching Mists aren't easily summoned and take a good while to build up.
You usually have to level Kennen faster than turn 6+ to be worth it and this deck proably doesn't get him leveled fast especially if you don't draw Camavoran Soldier who you can't tutor with this list.
Also as I already mentioned the deck doesn't provide a serious payoff for level 2 kennen. Fae Bladetwirler is a quite aweful payoff for Kennen level 2 since getting atk on a 3 health unit without evasion on turn 6+ is nearly meanigless it's not like marks of the storm are dead cards on their own but without overwhelm units, Yasuo or Kinkou Wayfinder i don't see enough profit for Kennen to make sense
I can't say if the deck is good.
I however can say with absolute certainty say that Tail-Cloak Matriarch doesn't belong into this deck.
Like how many recall effects do you play? 6? And 3 of those are reactice recalls.
Like this card is hardly worth in dedicated recall decks but in this list? I feel it downgrades the deck for no good reason and should be replaced with Go Get It if you want to keep the spirit of the card or a Deny if you want to go more into a competetive direction
Also there is in general too little interaction in this deck and neighter Fae Bladetwirler not Mask Mother have enough support to be worth it.
The theme that seems to be worth trying is Mistwraith Kennen Encroaching Mist featuring summon effects like Camavoran Soldier
Some issue I also see with Scribe of Sorrows is that he will hit encroaching mist a lot which isn't the greatest hit
Oh and as the final question i would like to know how helpful Kennen actually is in this list.
Stun effects hardly support the deck's theme, also does Kennen still level quite slow because you can't tutor him and the fact that encroaching mists are meant to be summoned in small counts until lategame where leveling Kennen is not worth it anymore (at least in this build)
I feel like Kennen is not worth for the list and that Ahri would be more useful for recalling/recycling you summoning units
That a deck like Ezreal Kennen even reached 55% with it's extreme playrate is VERY wrong.
If you watched some LoR gameplay in the lower ranks you saw how poorly the deck get's played by a good amount of players and that it lost 10% winrate should be because those "suboptimal" players no longer will win games with the deck.
Once these players switch to easier decks I see the deck's winrate recover. Will it be over 50%?
I can't say and hard decks like ez kennen tend to stay below 50% winrate because casuals don't succeed with it.
But I think this is once again an overreaction caused by players not knowing about nerfs, not being familiar with the deck and the deck obviously being weaker than before.
Still i have a strong believe that ionia will be back on the menue soon
if people actually stop playing ionia just because God-Willow Seedling is less op now and Kinkou Wayfinder is less abusive then that's clearly an overreaction/mistake
Ionia got great new cards if people don't find ways to use them then that's on them
could it be that the actual reason why people stoped playing ionia decks is that streamers haven't come up with new decks to copy paste and/or people just want to take their chance to play old decks before new decks roll around?
Like if your deck was pushed into tier 2-3 by the decks that now got nerfed and now you got a realistic chance to do your thing then you would take this chance wouldn't you?
Let me see:
Dragon decks can be tricky since they can get rid of yasuo and have tricks to stop my deck in combat
Heimerdinger gets sliced into pieces
Lurks all have 2 hp and hardly any tricks. Yasuo and Kennen love that.
Deep really depens on how early you hit Fae Bladetwirler: if you hit her until turn 4 you should get deep dead in time
Ahri really gets wrecked by stuns and recalls on the unit next to her- next.
Rumble needs answers? Ionias has them.
Xerath decks? I hardly ever have seen them and when I sah them they were quite mediocre not sure what to think about them
What is a nerf to Kennen Ezreal is a not that bad/ maybe even a buff for Kennen Yasuo. The fact that I now always get to fetch The Mourned and Kennen allows the deck to chose which engine it wants to go for (The Mourned to level Kennen/Yasuo and buff Fae Bladetwirler or Kennen to get more cc.
Overall I feel like ezreal kennen is slowed down enough for aggressive Yasuo Kennen builds to rush them in time and that's something that I am quite exited about
Only 1 The Box in slay control?
Given the frequency of turn 4 wayfinders i would run at least 2 copies to always "welcome" our Kennens
okay so you are trying to take your chance to kill the lvl 1 Kennens with a Yasuo on curve on turn 5?
Good luck at succeeding with that buddy and not get denied/recalled
I am really not buying this card since it will rarely hits more than 2 units. You rather invoke a 3 mana stun 2 units than using this card that is niche at best
like name a 1 tier deck right now that cares about the 2 power or less clause
It pains me to see that people play yasuo kennen with bandle city as the second region.
Bandle city doesn't support yasuo a lot: you get Cloud Stance Lightning Rush and Quicken but is that good enough to justify bandle? Apparently it's not given the deck win's only 40% of games.
Meanwhile if you go targon, get access to nexus heal, Shield Vault (which also buffs yasuo's damage) Hush (which can't be wrong against ezreal kennen) Iula (which makes Fae Bladetwirler actually dangerous) and Solari Sunhawk you will do better for sure.
I didn't find a matchup unwinable with the targon variant and I am confident it is actually decent
forget about what I said about Ahri being good. You kill or stun the unit next to her and she just dies
the broken champion of this expansion is without a doubt Kennen who singlehandedly combines aggro supression, free spellshield procs and in combination with Ezreal a ton of burn damage for free ... as a 1 drop