Many of the archetypes you listed weren't a thing since many expansions (Asol Ramp) or a thing ever ( tf cassino/Kindred Control) at least not in the tier deck sense.
What is interesting and what is not is very debatable (especially when I see dragons/demacia allegiance as mentions) so I can't really agree on that we would miss these decks.
That the %rate of viable archetypes HAS TO decline as there every day new archetypes form and metas simply change so that's not an Argument for diversity going down.
If you want to actually prove that diversity went downhill you have to show that the total number of viable champions/archetypes reduced and that we have in TOTAL less viable decks that before expansion.
There are without a doubt overperforming cards in the expansion and there will be nerfs for sure but to argue that deck diversity out of the sudden is gone is just hilerious to me :)
If your complaint is that deck environment is polarised and that you need to address multiple archetypes at once, forcing you make tradeoffs between archetypes then that is just how cardgames evolve that don't want to be as vanilla as basegame LoR
There will always be the go to lategame/control the go to midrange and go to aggro archetype. The challenge ALLWAYS is to build decks that fit into the metagame and I don't struggle to come up with fitting lists right now.
The only aspect about the meta that I find to be a problem is that noxus (one of if not the best region of the patch) relies very heavily on fast skills/spells right now and that Rite of Negation is just insane against it therfore while Quicksand answers pretty much every combat based strategy a bit too well and both are in shurima.
Afterall it's good to have interaction but riot should make sure that a region doesn't get too universal answers as it seems to be the case with shurima right now
What do you mean?! Targon's peak? What meemer is playing this right now?
Viego might be a bit boring as it wins 90% of times through flinging a legion desserterBADCARDNAME into the opponent's face but "synergistic crap"?! I thought synergy was the point of deckbuilding.
To me the expansion made many decks much more viable, not just thralls and I am far from bored from it.
But then it might be that you simply don't like noxus to be the new bandle city of the set, don't like how Disintegrate removes Lee Sin from any viability don't like how games now actually aren't about cycling at all (or was it you who hated that aswell?)
Whoever told you that Illaoi is the only true champion of the patch gave you pretty bad information as aside of Jhin all champions found a decent place in the meta and I really don't see how worldweaker failed on the pvp side
I can't help myself but this list looks very outdated to me.
Noxus as a region got soooo much more power in this expansion and I would expect at least Disintegrate to make it into the list.
Also running 3x The Leviathan looks very risky to me because right now expansive units die on arrival and spending 8 mana on any unit that doesn't do anything meaningful on play/summon is not longer viable imo.
How is it a mess when there aren't clear tier 1 decks but instead many viable decks? Also turbo thralls can be seen as tier 1 right now with almost 10% playrate and 53% winrate in the last 3 days. Afterall that just means the game is quite well balanced and that you actually need to play good to climb.
50% average winrate doesn't mean if you play the deck you win 50% if you play good you win more if you don't you land below and there is nothing wrong with that
Edit: By the way if you then openly say that archetypes like Legion DeserterViego do not matter to you in general and you won't cover how it does because of that it doesn't make you look like seeking for rational discussion but simply want to rant for rant's sake.
Also there is one very important metric you don't cover at all and that is playrate
If EzrealCaitlyn wins 52% with a 5% playrate in means a lot less than it winning 52% with 25% meta share. So next time I would suggest to start an open discussion.
it's great that you provide us, the users with daily information and give us the opportunity to exchange with others on games that we otherwise would not have the ways to discuss about.
For the future I would wish that the MTG portion of the forum becomes more relevant.
After the mtg arena forum closed (delayed because wotc can't even be bothered to close Websites in time) there isn't that much in exchange and I would like to see a replacement in ooc.
The main reason why the stun/recall archetype never worked imo is that it lacks a second unit like Yasuo to make it consistant.
I know it doesn't quite compare but when I played Blue White Magecraft in MTG standard the deck never was that competetive because it relied so much on stormchaser drake to be drawn that whenever you would not draw the drake you would run out of cards fast.
The release of the latest expansion brought illuminator virtuoso as stormchaser drake version 2 and out of the sudden the deck totaly slaps other decks because the gameplan is almost always coming together.
Seju GP works because you have 6 champion cards and you have tutors for them (dreadway and babbling bjerg) decreasing the odds to not draw them significantly.
Oh and no, Jhin is not Yasuo version 2... in my opinion Jhin himself is actually not that good of a champion given he needs a lot of support and resemles a Yasuo at home when he is in play.
There should be no surprise that AnnieJhin, a burn archetype that's easy to build and like most burn decks is easy to pilot is very popular and successful early in the season.
Decks aren't refined, optimal control configurations aren't figured out so aggro is favoured for now... I think however that this archetype has not even close the staying power that it needs to remain a t1 deck.
If I take for example Bard as the imo best champion from the expansion then you see an archetype that can keep up with burn in the earlygame while outscaling burn big chimes later in the game.
I am currently playing BardMaokai and have 0 problem with burn because I have often the better earlygame, i got healing en mass and the by far better lategame.
I also don't struggle with control with this deck. The only thing that might be tricks to beat are other more greedy bard lists and combo lists.
I didn't expect him to be nearly as powerful as he turned out to be.
As it turns out: getting 3 chimes every turn for free is very good, especially because those get added to the deck before you draw.
That you can hit a chime already on round 1 turning your 2/1 into a 3/2 on turn 1 already is silly and lead to very unfair earlygames based on rng.
In general I feel like the archetype packs a little too much highroll potential and looks pretty op because it combines a potentially broken earlygame with an almost guranteed broken lategame.
The idea behind the Bard package doesn't look too impressive on it's own: its comparable to the frelyordian deckbuff archetype that never has really been a thing.
However there are 2 cards that I consider quite op in this archetype: the 2 mana elusive support and the chime doubler for 6.
The support just is overall extremely strong of a play giving it's an elusive support for 2 that grants +1/+1 to it's supported ally and +1/+1 to an ally in hand being effectively a 1/3 elusive that grows every attack by 1/1.
The chime double however is imo broken because it's a summon effect that can't be interrupted whatsoever and that gurantees a strong lategame while still being a respectable 4/6 +X/+X body for 6.
The fact that a significant doubling effect comes on a summon effect of a 6 mana unit really makes me wonder if the developers were aware that cloning of cards actually is a thing because 1 doubling is very powerful but manageable.
2 doublings Is almost unbeatable and 3... well you can go for the next game at that point and all you need for that is resolving a Go Get It once on it
Annie is strong, in fact very strong on her own. She also comes with the best championspell in the game handsdown.
She and her support package not only support burn but also stun archetypes so yes Annie is strong in burn but not only there. (Thinking of Annie Yasuo for example)
Can we just for Annie integrate a feature to rate cards with a 6th star? Like Annie and her championspell both are nuts and as most streamers pointed out: she most likely will be an improvent for countless archetypes... even non aggro ones
Disintegrate is such a powerful removal spell (arguably better than vengance) and it comes also as a championspell for the proably best 1 mana champion in the game after release?!
Riot really wanted to make sure that the Jhin archetype will be tier 1 (maybe even tier 0)
The lame part is that this way there won't be much experimentation around Jhin since AnnieJhin will be most likely the go to build.
Now this... proably too expansive and slow to be a good card.
Even if drawing 3 for 6 is not a terrible rate, it really can't be played in any meta where tempo matters the slightest (so essentially no meta at all)
Yepp I experienced the same and it seems like Riot actually forces everyone to play the first chapter.
To be fair it's mostly a tutorial 2.0 but pretty annoying
Many of the archetypes you listed weren't a thing since many expansions (Asol Ramp) or a thing ever ( tf cassino/Kindred Control) at least not in the tier deck sense.
What is interesting and what is not is very debatable (especially when I see dragons/demacia allegiance as mentions) so I can't really agree on that we would miss these decks.
That the %rate of viable archetypes HAS TO decline as there every day new archetypes form and metas simply change so that's not an Argument for diversity going down.
If you want to actually prove that diversity went downhill you have to show that the total number of viable champions/archetypes reduced and that we have in TOTAL less viable decks that before expansion.
There are without a doubt overperforming cards in the expansion and there will be nerfs for sure but to argue that deck diversity out of the sudden is gone is just hilerious to me :)
If your complaint is that deck environment is polarised and that you need to address multiple archetypes at once, forcing you make tradeoffs between archetypes then that is just how cardgames evolve that don't want to be as vanilla as basegame LoR
There will always be the go to lategame/control the go to midrange and go to aggro archetype. The challenge ALLWAYS is to build decks that fit into the metagame and I don't struggle to come up with fitting lists right now.
The only aspect about the meta that I find to be a problem is that noxus (one of if not the best region of the patch) relies very heavily on fast skills/spells right now and that Rite of Negation is just insane against it therfore while Quicksand answers pretty much every combat based strategy a bit too well and both are in shurima.
Afterall it's good to have interaction but riot should make sure that a region doesn't get too universal answers as it seems to be the case with shurima right now
What do you mean?! Targon's peak? What meemer is playing this right now?
Viego might be a bit boring as it wins 90% of times through flinging a legion desserterBADCARDNAME into the opponent's face but "synergistic crap"?! I thought synergy was the point of deckbuilding.
To me the expansion made many decks much more viable, not just thralls and I am far from bored from it.
But then it might be that you simply don't like noxus to be the new bandle city of the set, don't like how Disintegrate removes Lee Sin from any viability don't like how games now actually aren't about cycling at all (or was it you who hated that aswell?)
Whoever told you that Illaoi is the only true champion of the patch gave you pretty bad information as aside of Jhin all champions found a decent place in the meta and I really don't see how worldweaker failed on the pvp side
To be honest I have NEVER seen Bone Skewer making it into a deep list so far.
Therefore I would be interested how well it does. What are the units you usually use it with? :)
I can't help myself but this list looks very outdated to me.
Noxus as a region got soooo much more power in this expansion and I would expect at least Disintegrate to make it into the list.
Also running 3x The Leviathan looks very risky to me because right now expansive units die on arrival and spending 8 mana on any unit that doesn't do anything meaningful on play/summon is not longer viable imo.
How is it a mess when there aren't clear tier 1 decks but instead many viable decks? Also turbo thralls can be seen as tier 1 right now with almost 10% playrate and 53% winrate in the last 3 days. Afterall that just means the game is quite well balanced and that you actually need to play good to climb.
50% average winrate doesn't mean if you play the deck you win 50% if you play good you win more if you don't you land below and there is nothing wrong with that
Edit: By the way if you then openly say that archetypes like Legion Deserter Viego do not matter to you in general and you won't cover how it does because of that it doesn't make you look like seeking for rational discussion but simply want to rant for rant's sake.
Also there is one very important metric you don't cover at all and that is playrate
If Ezreal Caitlyn wins 52% with a 5% playrate in means a lot less than it winning 52% with 25% meta share. So next time I would suggest to start an open discussion.
Midrange is dead?
Interesting position given that Viego Legion Deserter is a very powerful archetype and is proably as midrangey ad it gets.
Cool stuff isn't viable? Well I think that depends a lot on your perspective. I find Bard Maokai selfmill very cool despite being janky as hell.
In general I like worlwaker even if some value cards were pushed a little too much in my opinion.
If it ultimately is a good or bad meta will be a subject to discuss when the dust has settled (what it absolutely hasn't)
But hey call the meta bad and it being only aggro or control I can't confirm that at all and I doubt others can do so eighter
When it comes to the new champions there are only 2 regions that the new champions come from:
Noxus with Annie
Bilgewater with Illaoi
Jhin and Bard are regionless (therefore there won't be new levels for them)
Happy birthday out of cards!
it's great that you provide us, the users with daily information and give us the opportunity to exchange with others on games that we otherwise would not have the ways to discuss about.
For the future I would wish that the MTG portion of the forum becomes more relevant.
After the mtg arena forum closed (delayed because wotc can't even be bothered to close Websites in time) there isn't that much in exchange and I would like to see a replacement in ooc.
The main reason why the stun/recall archetype never worked imo is that it lacks a second unit like Yasuo to make it consistant.
I know it doesn't quite compare but when I played Blue White Magecraft in MTG standard the deck never was that competetive because it relied so much on stormchaser drake to be drawn that whenever you would not draw the drake you would run out of cards fast.
The release of the latest expansion brought illuminator virtuoso as stormchaser drake version 2 and out of the sudden the deck totaly slaps other decks because the gameplan is almost always coming together.
Seju GP works because you have 6 champion cards and you have tutors for them (dreadway and babbling bjerg) decreasing the odds to not draw them significantly.
Oh and no, Jhin is not Yasuo version 2... in my opinion Jhin himself is actually not that good of a champion given he needs a lot of support and resemles a Yasuo at home when he is in play.
Saying that Bard has to be played with Zed in ionia seems a bit off to me.
Any list that can make sure you draw the chimes you plant in your deck and hold off early aggression is good with Bard.
It doesn't matter weather it is Zed who for sure profits well from extra stats or if it's a Sparklefly, Maokai an Insightful Investigator even a Trifarian Assessor... everything works as long as it's not going too greedy
There should be no surprise that Annie Jhin, a burn archetype that's easy to build and like most burn decks is easy to pilot is very popular and successful early in the season.
Decks aren't refined, optimal control configurations aren't figured out so aggro is favoured for now... I think however that this archetype has not even close the staying power that it needs to remain a t1 deck.
If I take for example Bard as the imo best champion from the expansion then you see an archetype that can keep up with burn in the earlygame while outscaling burn big chimes later in the game.
I am currently playing Bard Maokai and have 0 problem with burn because I have often the better earlygame, i got healing en mass and the by far better lategame.
I also don't struggle with control with this deck. The only thing that might be tricks to beat are other more greedy bard lists and combo lists.
My winner of the expansion clearly is Bard.
I didn't expect him to be nearly as powerful as he turned out to be.
As it turns out: getting 3 chimes every turn for free is very good, especially because those get added to the deck before you draw.
That you can hit a chime already on round 1 turning your 2/1 into a 3/2 on turn 1 already is silly and lead to very unfair earlygames based on rng.
In general I feel like the archetype packs a little too much highroll potential and looks pretty op because it combines a potentially broken earlygame with an almost guranteed broken lategame.
The idea behind the Bard package doesn't look too impressive on it's own: its comparable to the frelyordian deckbuff archetype that never has really been a thing.
However there are 2 cards that I consider quite op in this archetype: the 2 mana elusive support and the chime doubler for 6.
The support just is overall extremely strong of a play giving it's an elusive support for 2 that grants +1/+1 to it's supported ally and +1/+1 to an ally in hand being effectively a 1/3 elusive that grows every attack by 1/1.
The chime double however is imo broken because it's a summon effect that can't be interrupted whatsoever and that gurantees a strong lategame while still being a respectable 4/6 +X/+X body for 6.
The fact that a significant doubling effect comes on a summon effect of a 6 mana unit really makes me wonder if the developers were aware that cloning of cards actually is a thing because 1 doubling is very powerful but manageable.
2 doublings Is almost unbeatable and 3... well you can go for the next game at that point and all you need for that is resolving a Go Get It once on it
When you search for cards just activate the filter for the worldwaker expansion and that should be it
Obedient drakehound is quite nuts,
the only issue I see with it is that noxus lacks other attack support, making something like bladedance noxus look not worth it yet.
If I learned something from mtg is that a mechanic is only worth playing around when there are 2 - 3 good payoff cards for it.
Drakehound stands on it's own so I doubt that we see competetive builds around this card ... yet
Annie is strong, in fact very strong on her own. She also comes with the best championspell in the game handsdown.
She and her support package not only support burn but also stun archetypes so yes Annie is strong in burn but not only there. (Thinking of Annie Yasuo for example)
Can we just for Annie integrate a feature to rate cards with a 6th star? Like Annie and her championspell both are nuts and as most streamers pointed out: she most likely will be an improvent for countless archetypes... even non aggro ones
Disintegrate is such a powerful removal spell (arguably better than vengance) and it comes also as a championspell for the proably best 1 mana champion in the game after release?!
Riot really wanted to make sure that the Jhin archetype will be tier 1 (maybe even tier 0)
The lame part is that this way there won't be much experimentation around Jhin since Annie Jhin will be most likely the go to build.
Now this... proably too expansive and slow to be a good card.
Even if drawing 3 for 6 is not a terrible rate, it really can't be played in any meta where tempo matters the slightest (so essentially no meta at all)