"If you behold..." on a 2 mana unit is bad design in my oppinion, because you can't reliably pull this effect, even in dragon decks so that this card is just another rng card although it is less obvious. If you play it turn 3 its still okay but after turn 3 it is quite meh...
I this, again is an example of the hearthstone style of card design what is just boring and should not get into LoR
Well, he started, I am against personal attacks, but he didn't have to ridicule my use of some words I don't even use myself.. what's even the point to do that?
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2 Results above my first post. Both from DoubleSummon.
I was poking fun at the point you were making that your entire "card defense" hinged on win the game conditions being "explicit" in the card description or not. And I was poking holes in that defense by rebutting with evidence and experience.
You're welcome to disagree, or even hold your ground (props to you for sticking to your guns even when facing adversity, regardless if you are correct or not).
However, what I said was so far removed from "personal attacks" it's not even funny. I think you probably need to go google ad hominem and come back. A personal attack would be "DoubleSummon, you're dumb and you don't know what your talking about. You're just a scrub who is new. git gud"
That, in theory would be a personal attack.
I said that you loved to use the word explicit, so I bolded it for you. That is a jab at your logical defense. Not a personal attack. Learn the difference. On the flip side, saying that you are "sorry for using words that I don't understand" is using an assumed passive aggressive statement that implies that I'm too dumb to understand what the word explicit means.
My jab = You love this word so I'm poking fun at you for using it as your card defense lynchpin.
Your comment = You're too dumb to understand this word.
If anything, your attack is an implied ad hominem. Mine is not.
I would suggest to not use a card discussion as a place to beef eachother.
I agree that DS got a little off with his argumentation but nonetheless it has nothing to do with Star Spring.
We eighter should get back to the card discussion or shut the conversation I think :/
Healing 22 dmg is a lot.. It's 1 needs to be dealt and 2 needs to be healed.. I know it's a hard concept.. But you know braum level up.. Is not that easy and the healing aspect is made trivial.
Besides they said they would add landmark removal to other cards, nobody said it's Taragon locked mechanic.
I meant I win the game if I have ezreal lvl 2 and the otk in hand not just that single card..
This card also has a condition.. And it's much harder than it looks.
Sorry for using words you don't usually see I will use simpler words so you can understand them :).
Did you really have to get overbearing like this?
In the end neihgther you or we can be proven right here unless we see cards in action.
As long as nobody is proven right you should not sneeze at people like you did in your last paragraph
This kinda reads: give allys regeneration this turn, what is not a 3 mana slow speed effect at all and will most likely be a pointless gimmic but at least it is flavourful... or kinda not since Soraka ult is an instant cast in league and should be a fast speed At least in LoR
My point is to not panic when you see "win the game" other cards also have that text but not explicit...
Something saying "Win the game if X condition is fufilled" is always a cause for some alarm. While other cards/champions may not have something EXPLICITY (since you seem to love that word I bolded it for you) written on them that wins the game, yes they may win the game none-the-less.
In your examples you listed ASol, Ezreal, Shudderwock.
One is from a different game that has very little counterplay available to it, so while I understand your premise, the games are far enough apparent in the way that they play that I feel like comparing the cards does very little for any actual discussion.....moving on to the other two.
Asol, while his level up ability is EXTREMELY powerful, can still be played around or beaten. Ezreal, while his level up ability may enable some OTK combos, it does require the opponent to have the right cards in hand. Many cards MAY implicity equate to winning the game, but don't actually tell the game engine: "Ok this game is over, cause this player fufilled X condition". You can still play around things like Ez, Asol, Riptide Rex, etc. And in fact, there's MANY ways to do this against all of those.
Against riptide rex you can go wide, or you can use direct healing to put yourself out of lethal range. There's actually a lot that can be used to counter him. Same goes for ez, asol, and other units. In fact I'd argue that Fiora, who has a similar mechanic as Star Spring, is a good comparison because as a regular champion unit, many different things can interact with her. Single combat, spells, etc.
The problem with star spring is that because landmark removal is most likely going to be at a premium, it's going to force the Targon region even more than before. As if having Bastion (effectively a 3 cost deny for single target removal) wasn't strong enough, now they'll have a value generator (passive heal every round) and an alternate win condition.
Hell. Decks that won't even run healing spells will probably run that landmark just because of the value it can generate over the course of a game and the small chance of an alternate win condition. The only thing a landmark like that will do is either A) create a targon based meta, or B) create a hyper aggro meta.
B) is not a thing since Star Spring will proably end up as a card in Regeneration Decks that use dmg based boardwipes like Avalanche and Ember Maiden to progress the quest faster.
If anything can beat that deck it is a very strong midrange deck that is resilient enough against boardwipes while also agressive enough to punish the rather weak midgame of this deck or decks focussing on landmark removal. For now all of that is just speculation i know but i still have a very bad feeling about this card...
I would argue that Bloodsworn Pledge, (which is imo a very underrated card) is usually better than this card because it takes a very large body to actually make use of the heal part. The fact that Taric can double this card seems good... until you realise that it is kinda a bloodsworn pledge + heal for the same mana what is pretty underwhelming given we talk about a 2 card + 1 unit combo that can't be used before turn 5 where giving health already starts to become less usefull. You only use that card if you have THE ABSOLUTE UNIT that you want to protect at any price and so far i don't know any unit that fits this desceiption. I see this only used in very fringe lists that can't run Bloodsworn Pledge instead
I wonder if it fair to compare Aurelion Sol who is a 10 mana unit with Star Spring which is 2 mana and has narrow removal.
I mean in case it is quite easy to "level" star spring it is way more powerful/ opressive as a 2 mana card than a 10 unit isn't it?
Also is a comparison with Shudderwock odd since he is 1 out of 30 cards and 9 mana while Star Spring is 3 out of 40 cards and has tutors in the same region.
I never said combo/alternate winconditions are bad for a game but they need to be balanced and i doubt that 2 mana Star Spring is balanced
I am afraid that you missunderstood Star Spring: it doesn't progress as you heal your nexus. Therefore this list will almost never have Star Spring being a wincondition
While hawk is proably the better turn1 play shepard is better on every other turn and overall way more powerful of a card in this list. But anyways this deck seems decent:)
So Star Spring is basically this and that's okay, people liked this card. But you don't gain nexus life so it's worse, but it's cheaper so that's better, so in the end probably not a huge meta thing, but it should be a fun deck archetype.
I am not sure what kind of mtg you have been playing but the spring and aetherflux have very little to do with each other. Aetherflux is a cardspam- combo payoff what is a huge differece to the spring that gains charges as units you control heal.
Aetherflux is more general but spring is way more op given it is 2 mana in a slower game than mtg that doesn't have lands.
Also are answers for the spring quite narrow what makes it way more problematic in LoR
Now this is... a design i didn't want to see at all and should not exist in this form in LoR.
For 2 mana this card's heal would proably be enought without the wincondition part but since it has it...
You now have heal (which can also be regeneration) what is originally meant as a countermeasure for removal as your gameplan what will proably very frustrating to face, especially for control and i wonder how such a design with such a high powerlevel gets greenlit.
If you can't remove landmarks in your deck, this card will charge up over 3-4 rounds of using a selfdamaging boardwipes and lose you the game, as a 2 mana landmark...
Again, i doubt that this card is competetive. Sure it is in theory infinite value but in practice it is just too slow and unreliable to be any competetive
If that's true -- if it's really not worth playing -- that's just another reason to hate it.
You don't have a sense for fun and casual card designs do you?
The Abyss is not meant to be part of top tier, it is meant for fun times in friendly pvp matches what is great!
You won't lose any mmr, won't have to deal with it in competetive play and timmis got spectacular moments to make youtube material of...
I call that a huge win without great risk to backfire
The play effect kinda compares to "give you units fearsome this turn" what is not too bad when combined with the 3/3 elusive body but where to fit this card into? Maybe ionia elusive lists? Lets see
A tailermade support for frostbite noxus decks...
it is certainly strong but it disappoints me that riot creates cards for existing decks instead of trying new design spaces :/
"If you behold..." on a 2 mana unit is bad design in my oppinion, because you can't reliably pull this effect, even in dragon decks so that this card is just another rng card although it is less obvious. If you play it turn 3 its still okay but after turn 3 it is quite meh...
I this, again is an example of the hearthstone style of card design what is just boring and should not get into LoR
Nice, more MTG design...
Hate cards and the requirement to run them in order to win against certain deck are what makes mtg such an unejoyable game in bo1.
Unless we move on to b03 in LoR this kind of design can only bad for the game.
This is an exzellent example of boring but powerful card design as we know it from hearthstone.
While it is certainly strong, i am disgusted to see this lazy card design in LoR.
Riot pls, don't turn LoR into Legends of Hearthmagic you are right on the road towards it...
I would suggest to not use a card discussion as a place to beef eachother.
I agree that DS got a little off with his argumentation but nonetheless it has nothing to do with Star Spring.
We eighter should get back to the card discussion or shut the conversation I think :/
Did you really have to get overbearing like this?
In the end neihgther you or we can be proven right here unless we see cards in action.
As long as nobody is proven right you should not sneeze at people like you did in your last paragraph
Just saying...
This kinda reads: give allys regeneration this turn, what is not a 3 mana slow speed effect at all and will most likely be a pointless gimmic but at least it is flavourful... or kinda not since Soraka ult is an instant cast in league and should be a fast speed At least in LoR
B) is not a thing since Star Spring will proably end up as a card in Regeneration Decks that use dmg based boardwipes like Avalanche and Ember Maiden to progress the quest faster.
If anything can beat that deck it is a very strong midrange deck that is resilient enough against boardwipes while also agressive enough to punish the rather weak midgame of this deck or decks focussing on landmark removal. For now all of that is just speculation i know but i still have a very bad feeling about this card...
I would argue that Bloodsworn Pledge, (which is imo a very underrated card) is usually better than this card because it takes a very large body to actually make use of the heal part. The fact that Taric can double this card seems good... until you realise that it is kinda a bloodsworn pledge + heal for the same mana what is pretty underwhelming given we talk about a 2 card + 1 unit combo that can't be used before turn 5 where giving health already starts to become less usefull. You only use that card if you have THE ABSOLUTE UNIT that you want to protect at any price and so far i don't know any unit that fits this desceiption. I see this only used in very fringe lists that can't run Bloodsworn Pledge instead
I wonder if it fair to compare Aurelion Sol who is a 10 mana unit with Star Spring which is 2 mana and has narrow removal.
I mean in case it is quite easy to "level" star spring it is way more powerful/ opressive as a 2 mana card than a 10 unit isn't it?
Also is a comparison with Shudderwock odd since he is 1 out of 30 cards and 9 mana while Star Spring is 3 out of 40 cards and has tutors in the same region.
I never said combo/alternate winconditions are bad for a game but they need to be balanced and i doubt that 2 mana Star Spring is balanced
I am afraid that you missunderstood Star Spring: it doesn't progress as you heal your nexus. Therefore this list will almost never have Star Spring being a wincondition
You got to update the list since you can't play more than 3× Guiding Touch
I wonder why you would prefer Omen Hawk over Star Shepherd in this list.
While hawk is proably the better turn1 play shepard is better on every other turn and overall way more powerful of a card in this list. But anyways this deck seems decent:)
I am not sure what kind of mtg you have been playing but the spring and aetherflux have very little to do with each other. Aetherflux is a cardspam- combo payoff what is a huge differece to the spring that gains charges as units you control heal.
Aetherflux is more general but spring is way more op given it is 2 mana in a slower game than mtg that doesn't have lands.
Also are answers for the spring quite narrow what makes it way more problematic in LoR
Its a nice, meta dependant card that eighter works as tutor or removal, what is neat design, i like it
Now this is... a design i didn't want to see at all and should not exist in this form in LoR.
For 2 mana this card's heal would proably be enought without the wincondition part but since it has it...
You now have heal (which can also be regeneration) what is originally meant as a countermeasure for removal as your gameplan what will proably very frustrating to face, especially for control and i wonder how such a design with such a high powerlevel gets greenlit.
If you can't remove landmarks in your deck, this card will charge up over 3-4 rounds of using a selfdamaging boardwipes and lose you the game, as a 2 mana landmark...
I wonder: what were they thinking?!
Maokai mills your deck as he levels up but since he doesn't level when you get him from the HA he is only a 2/5 token generator for 4
You don't have a sense for fun and casual card designs do you?
The Abyss is not meant to be part of top tier, it is meant for fun times in friendly pvp matches what is great!
You won't lose any mmr, won't have to deal with it in competetive play and timmis got spectacular moments to make youtube material of...
I call that a huge win without great risk to backfire
The play effect kinda compares to "give you units fearsome this turn" what is not too bad when combined with the 3/3 elusive body but where to fit this card into? Maybe ionia elusive lists? Lets see
While i don't see a particular deck for this card yet, i see that this card has potential and could make some Taric list a thing