To be honest, arena rewards are currently still okay, assuming you'd put the work in. Like yourself, I've grinded arena in my early days cause' I have literally no cards or dust to build even a decent aggro deck to go into ranked (I got my first month-end card back around 8 months from my start date. To put things in perspective, all you needed to do then was to reach rank 25).
A simplification of the details; you pay 150 gold, and you get 1 pack no matter what + a random reward of either dust or gold. The rewards scale with the number of wins, and the common ideal is to reach 7 wins, whereupon you get your gold back guaranteed. But this is only half the picture. To get the ticket's worth in gold, the actual number of wins required is 2 (for a chance of 40-50 gold) to 4 (where you are guaranteed 50 gold).
So all that is required to basically get 50 gold + a pack is actually 2-4 wins, very achievable. 3 wins is basically a gold standard in many cases. I won't discuss any higher than that, since most players don't get past 3 wins anyway.
But to go back to your proposal, its just broken. 50 gold to start, and only 1 win is all that is required to get value, 3 wins to get your gold back AND a pack. Let's be honest. If this was the structure back then I would be swimming in gold right now. Arena is grindy, and it should be grindy because the rewards it gives out for those who grind it is always better than it would be if you were grinding up gold via quests.
I left arena once I had a few decks to play with and never looked back. The reason is simple. Arena is only fun for only a small portion of players (and I mean really small). The vast majority of us (who play it at all) grind it for gold. If the idea is to make arena fun, its simple enough to remove all the rewards and allow players to go for it without charge. Hell, I'd play arena every now and then if I can go for it without charge, even without the rewards.
it only pays for itself at 1 win, that's of course if 1 win in constructed is also worth more than 3.33 gold(the current system).. here it's worth 20 gold but you put 50 gold, so the 1 win is fair.. the earlier tiers were more carefully placed in this suggestion, I actually thought about them being fair.
3 wins = higher than 50% win rate already that's where your deck is "Good" kind of the pack + fee is a reward that has value but.. it doesn't feel great at 7 wins which is actually an insane win rate and at least 40 minutes into a run....... if not a hour.. I find arena interesting but requires too much time and grinding for while the rewards are good compared to the entry fee, they are not exciting... at all..
1. Add guaranteed epics to the end
2.make the arena grind for max reward shorter
3. make the arena entry fee more affordable.
of course the arena rewards can increase that way cause the whole economic system is increasing!
also do note that on 6 wins for example you are missing on 20 gold from the 3 wins thing which is also really really grindy..
I think people who grind need to be rewarded more.. that's the point.. and of course as a player I want bigger rewards but something in the middle will be also much better but having a mode for 6 years while having the same rewards.. it's just not scalable.
Virgin LoL Sol VS uber chad LOR Sol. Seriously though in LoL Sol can barely kill an adc but in LoR he actually seems like his lore-wise power levels I'm excited to see how he pans out.
yes and it won't even be enough, they are buffing the rewards of the standard game they should buff arena as well.
hearthstone is insanely expensive, and unrewarding the beta numbers don't add up.. at 3 wins you are at above 50% win rate already..
The numbers/rewards are just something I didn't put too much thought but something along those lines probably like 100 gold less on the higher tiers, would be happy with just a random epic (none golden) at 10 wins at least you are advancing your collection and getting those elusive epics. They are probably overtunned AF but better rewards are needed and reduce the max wins.
Other games have much shorter arena runs with better rewards.
The entry cost needs to go down for the mode to be more fun and easier to get into. and the rewards need to be doubled while the mode needs to be less grindy.
if you increase arena rewards while also increasing the normal system with similar rewards it's still not gonna break the game.. It's along my expectation of the standard system being more rewarding of course so arena won't break the game.. but having those random drops would really intensify arena grinding.. rather than.. some gold.
It's powerful but it does die to everything.. reminds me of the Lure of the Depths but way WAYY worse.
you are playing a 0.5 mana worth card that isn't durable at all, it doesn't even guarantee you any value, it will die to everything you WON'T be blocking with it anything..
Depending how viable dragons are needs to be 1 mana or 1/2 to actually be any realistically good I am guessing dragons are more viable than we think if it's a 1/1 for 2..
I commented on the latest news but I think this is worth the discussion.. I think arena has no real fun reason to play it, most of this OP will be a copy paste from that comment on the news article: but I reformatted parts of it to be more readable.
I don't like that the runs take a lot of time and you needs an insane win rate to actually profit from arena, I don't feel like sitting through 12 wins only to get trice the entry fee.. the arena feels unrewarding for the time poured into them.. I didn't play arena for over 2 years and I used to play more when I didn't had many resources it's feels like a chore..
I do enjoy the gameplay but it feels like such a big time and gold commitment to play.. I just hate playing it and losing too fast or make risky picks.
The reward system is the same since beta... SERIOUSLY.
Suggested estimated rewards that would feel better:
lower the entry fee, lower the max wins, increase the reward threshold.
Show Spoiler
entry fee:50 gold, win caps at 10 instead of 12.
0 wins you get 40 gold (so you can't reroll indefinitely)
1 win you get 70 gold worth of dust/cards/gold,
2 wins you get a pack and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the first pack is from the latest expansion)
3 wins you get a pack and 50 gold worth of stuff (3 wins is the new 7 wins, you have over 50% win rate at this point!)
4 wins you get a pack and 75 gold worth of stuff.
5 wins it's 2 packs and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the second pack can be anything even a yearly pack!)
6 wins you get 2 packs and 70 gold worth of stuff.
7 wins it's 3 packs the third is also random + a chance of a cosmetic.
8 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 20 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
9 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 80 gold + chance of an epic + a chance of a cosmetic.
10 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden epic + random reward worth 100 gold + 50 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
I just threw numbers and rewards but something that will be exciting to earn and not just.. "value" it feels bad to play arena and get some value we want to get special rewards or get guaranteed rewards on good runs.. arena feels BAD to win at and feels bad to get less than 7 wins you get less than the fee.. and need insane win rates. About the cosmetics: it's not a hero skin (maybe as a rare 10 wins drop) but it's something to grind for like some alternate card art or some old card backs.. give players a good reason to play more arena the mode is fun the entry fee is discouraging and so are the rewards.
More improvements suggestions:
1.Would also enjoyed the mixture of the expansions in arena but it wasn't conveyed correctly had no idea what to play or not around there was no way in game to tell which expansions were available.. for that a new feature needs to be implemented which is a peek into the available pool just open a collection manager which shows you the expansion available and what cards are legit or not, from the draft screen no need to do in game.
2. Arena tickets as rewards from quests + exp since they are 40 gold quest for none arena players this way. people who don't want to play arena can start and exit just to get the 40 gold, it will intensify players to try arena more and experiment more.
I hope I formatted this post correctly so it's easy in the eyes.
It's a free chump blocker (in terms of card advantage) in a deck whose win condition is nothing more than to survive until the late game. It is definitely OP.
chump blocking (specially if you can't block fearsome) helps you so far.. at some point it's not good anymore to block.
What don't you like about the current arena reward structure?
I believe the addition of experience which contributes to earnings in the Battle Pass might make it feel better without changing the actual structure of the Arena Rewards, though I'd love to know what you think would make Arena itself better.
I don't like that the runs take a lot of time and you needs an insane win rate to actually profit from arena, I don't feel like sitting through 12 wins only to get trice the entry fee.. the arena feels unrewarding for the time poured into them.. I didn't play arena for over 2 years and I used to play more when I didn't had many resources it's feels like a chore.. lower the entry fee, lower the max wins, increase the reward threshold..
suggested estimated rewards that would feel better:
Show Spoiler
entry fee:50 gold, win caps at 10 instead of 12.
0 you get 40 gold (so you can't reroll indefinitely)
1 win you get 70 gold worth of dust/cards/gold,
2 wins you get a pack and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the first pack is from the latest expansion)
3 wins you get a pack and 50 gold worth of stuff (3 wins is the new 7 wins, you have over 50% win rate at this point!)
4 wins you get a pack and 75 gold worth of stuff.
5 wins it's 2 packs and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the second pack can be anything even a yearly pack!)
6 wins you get 2 packs and 70 gold worth of stuff.
7 wins it's 3 packs the third is also random + a chance of a cosmetic.
8 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 20 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
9 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 80 gold + chance of an epic + a chance of a cosmetic.
10 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden epic + random reward worth 100 gold + 50 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
I just threw numbers and rewards but something that will be exciting to earn and not just.. "value" it feels bad to play arena and get some value we want to get special rewards or get guranteed rewards on good runs.. arena feels BAD to win at and feels bad to get less than 7 wins you get less than the fee.. and need insane win rates..
About the cosmetics: it's not a hero skin (maybe as a rare 10 wins drop) but it's something to grind for like some alternate card art or some old card backs.. give players a good reason to play more arena the mode is fun the entry fee is discouraging and so are the rewards.
The reward system is the same since beta SERIOUSLY...
Also maybe add arena tickets as rewards from quests + exp since they are 40 gold quest for none arena players this way.. people who don't want to play arena can start and exit just to get the 40 gold, it will intensify players to try arena more experiment more... return the rotations.. they stopped doing it cause arena is a dead mode, most people don't play it anymore I see 0 youtubers playing the mode it used to be more fun but the reward system killed it.
there are cards that care about celestials played so yeah.. I guess they replace themselves.. but if you don't draw them.. it's good against Maokai for sure but that's not the real win condition of deep decks, the messengers are decent would definetly be 3 of in any deck if they were collectible but you are not thinning your deck at all.. on the brightside this triggers nightfall (or should I say the dark side?)
it only pays for itself at 1 win, that's of course if 1 win in constructed is also worth more than 3.33 gold(the current system).. here it's worth 20 gold but you put 50 gold, so the 1 win is fair.. the earlier tiers were more carefully placed in this suggestion, I actually thought about them being fair.
3 wins = higher than 50% win rate already that's where your deck is "Good" kind of the pack + fee is a reward that has value but.. it doesn't feel great at 7 wins which is actually an insane win rate and at least 40 minutes into a run....... if not a hour.. I find arena interesting but requires too much time and grinding for while the rewards are good compared to the entry fee, they are not exciting... at all..
1. Add guaranteed epics to the end
2.make the arena grind for max reward shorter
3. make the arena entry fee more affordable.
of course the arena rewards can increase that way cause the whole economic system is increasing!
also do note that on 6 wins for example you are missing on 20 gold from the 3 wins thing which is also really really grindy..
I think people who grind need to be rewarded more.. that's the point.. and of course as a player I want bigger rewards but something in the middle will be also much better but having a mode for 6 years while having the same rewards.. it's just not scalable.
The prime version is not actually the same card so it can actually summon it's none prime version..
The hotfix was wide across all cards not specifically applied so..
Justice has been made to our Ao shin at last!
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Aurelion_Sol/Development
The timmiest timmies will play both.
yes and it won't even be enough, they are buffing the rewards of the standard game they should buff arena as well.
hearthstone is insanely expensive, and unrewarding the beta numbers don't add up.. at 3 wins you are at above 50% win rate already..
The numbers/rewards are just something I didn't put too much thought but something along those lines probably like 100 gold less on the higher tiers, would be happy with just a random epic (none golden) at 10 wins at least you are advancing your collection and getting those elusive epics. They are probably overtunned AF but better rewards are needed and reduce the max wins.
Other games have much shorter arena runs with better rewards.
The entry cost needs to go down for the mode to be more fun and easier to get into. and the rewards need to be doubled while the mode needs to be less grindy.
if you increase arena rewards while also increasing the normal system with similar rewards it's still not gonna break the game.. It's along my expectation of the standard system being more rewarding of course so arena won't break the game.. but having those random drops would really intensify arena grinding.. rather than.. some gold.
It's powerful but it does die to everything.. reminds me of the Lure of the Depths but way WAYY worse.
you are playing a 0.5 mana worth card that isn't durable at all, it doesn't even guarantee you any value, it will die to everything you WON'T be blocking with it anything..
Depending how viable dragons are needs to be 1 mana or 1/2 to actually be any realistically good I am guessing dragons are more viable than we think if it's a 1/1 for 2..
It's a good lever on the mechanic.. is a celestial card too oppressive? lower it's appearance rate.
is a card decent but sees no play whatsoever? make it's appearance rate higher..
wonder which cards are rarer than others..
I commented on the latest news but I think this is worth the discussion.. I think arena has no real fun reason to play it, most of this OP will be a copy paste from that comment on the news article: but I reformatted parts of it to be more readable.
https://outof.cards/hearthstone/1792-the-arena-will-keep-separate-rewards-from-hearthstones-battle-pass
What is wrong in arena? (At least for me)
I don't like that the runs take a lot of time and you needs an insane win rate to actually profit from arena, I don't feel like sitting through 12 wins only to get trice the entry fee.. the arena feels unrewarding for the time poured into them.. I didn't play arena for over 2 years and I used to play more when I didn't had many resources it's feels like a chore..
I do enjoy the gameplay but it feels like such a big time and gold commitment to play.. I just hate playing it and losing too fast or make risky picks.
The reward system is the same since beta... SERIOUSLY.
Suggested estimated rewards that would feel better:
lower the entry fee, lower the max wins, increase the reward threshold.
entry fee:50 gold, win caps at 10 instead of 12.
0 wins you get 40 gold (so you can't reroll indefinitely)
1 win you get 70 gold worth of dust/cards/gold,
2 wins you get a pack and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the first pack is from the latest expansion)
3 wins you get a pack and 50 gold worth of stuff (3 wins is the new 7 wins, you have over 50% win rate at this point!)
4 wins you get a pack and 75 gold worth of stuff.
5 wins it's 2 packs and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the second pack can be anything even a yearly pack!)
6 wins you get 2 packs and 70 gold worth of stuff.
7 wins it's 3 packs the third is also random + a chance of a cosmetic.
8 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 20 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
9 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 80 gold + chance of an epic + a chance of a cosmetic.
10 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden epic + random reward worth 100 gold + 50 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
I just threw numbers and rewards but something that will be exciting to earn and not just.. "value" it feels bad to play arena and get some value we want to get special rewards or get guaranteed rewards on good runs.. arena feels BAD to win at and feels bad to get less than 7 wins you get less than the fee.. and need insane win rates. About the cosmetics: it's not a hero skin (maybe as a rare 10 wins drop) but it's something to grind for like some alternate card art or some old card backs.. give players a good reason to play more arena the mode is fun the entry fee is discouraging and so are the rewards.
More improvements suggestions:
1.Would also enjoyed the mixture of the expansions in arena but it wasn't conveyed correctly had no idea what to play or not around there was no way in game to tell which expansions were available.. for that a new feature needs to be implemented which is a peek into the available pool just open a collection manager which shows you the expansion available and what cards are legit or not, from the draft screen no need to do in game.
2. Arena tickets as rewards from quests + exp since they are 40 gold quest for none arena players this way. people who don't want to play arena can start and exit just to get the 40 gold, it will intensify players to try arena more and experiment more.
I hope I formatted this post correctly so it's easy in the eyes.
chump blocking (specially if you can't block fearsome) helps you so far.. at some point it's not good anymore to block.
2/2 for 2 draw a card is not op when it doesn't actually thins your deck.
You can't switch targets with it though once played, it's stuck on those units.
I see what this card tries to do.. but 8 cost..
They Who Endure, more like they who get Hushed.
I don't like that the runs take a lot of time and you needs an insane win rate to actually profit from arena, I don't feel like sitting through 12 wins only to get trice the entry fee.. the arena feels unrewarding for the time poured into them.. I didn't play arena for over 2 years and I used to play more when I didn't had many resources it's feels like a chore.. lower the entry fee, lower the max wins, increase the reward threshold..
suggested estimated rewards that would feel better:
entry fee:50 gold, win caps at 10 instead of 12.
0 you get 40 gold (so you can't reroll indefinitely)
1 win you get 70 gold worth of dust/cards/gold,
2 wins you get a pack and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the first pack is from the latest expansion)
3 wins you get a pack and 50 gold worth of stuff (3 wins is the new 7 wins, you have over 50% win rate at this point!)
4 wins you get a pack and 75 gold worth of stuff.
5 wins it's 2 packs and 20 gold worth of stuff. (the second pack can be anything even a yearly pack!)
6 wins you get 2 packs and 70 gold worth of stuff.
7 wins it's 3 packs the third is also random + a chance of a cosmetic.
8 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 20 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
9 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden rare + random reward worth 80 gold + chance of an epic + a chance of a cosmetic.
10 wins you get 3 packs + a guaranteed golden epic + random reward worth 100 gold + 50 gold + a chance of a cosmetic.
I just threw numbers and rewards but something that will be exciting to earn and not just.. "value" it feels bad to play arena and get some value we want to get special rewards or get guranteed rewards on good runs.. arena feels BAD to win at and feels bad to get less than 7 wins you get less than the fee.. and need insane win rates..
About the cosmetics: it's not a hero skin (maybe as a rare 10 wins drop) but it's something to grind for like some alternate card art or some old card backs.. give players a good reason to play more arena the mode is fun the entry fee is discouraging and so are the rewards.
The reward system is the same since beta SERIOUSLY...
Also maybe add arena tickets as rewards from quests + exp since they are 40 gold quest for none arena players this way.. people who don't want to play arena can start and exit just to get the 40 gold, it will intensify players to try arena more experiment more... return the rotations.. they stopped doing it cause arena is a dead mode, most people don't play it anymore I see 0 youtubers playing the mode it used to be more fun but the reward system killed it.
there are cards that care about celestials played so yeah.. I guess they replace themselves.. but if you don't draw them.. it's good against Maokai for sure but that's not the real win condition of deep decks, the messengers are decent would definetly be 3 of in any deck if they were collectible but you are not thinning your deck at all.. on the brightside this triggers nightfall (or should I say the dark side?)
Still not making arena rewards feel better though..
3 mana for 5 heal? no thx. just play Behold the Infinite instead
it's too mana intensive to play this..specially when you got cards that heal and give a body.
The Timmiest card in the game.
On the competitive level:
People are gonna play him with Thresh and then cast Atrocity that's what gonna happen.
This guy in league is so small I am happy they did justice to his lore in runeterra.
You don't main deck it but when you play aurelion you might be able to cast this..
In the video I saw it doesn't target the nexus though but it's most definitely clears the enemy board.
3 mana draw 2 is decent.. the problem is that the dragon cards didn't impress me..
the or is good since it also gives tempo..
need to see how good is aurelion sol and shyvanna.
in hearthstone they make also a ton of mechanics but don't keyword them..
at least they are intuitive and once you learned the keyword you know what all cards with the keyword does.