I'm actually really happy with all of these nerfs. Extra Arms and Conjurer's Calling both needed the mana nerf because of the Twinspell mechanic. Also, I'd be very sad if Northshire Cleric was nerfed, and its interaction with Extra Arms was simply too strong. Let Divine Spirit shine a bit longer, but then please put it in the HoF with the next rotation. It's absolutely limiting Priest design space.
The only thing wrong with the Dr. Boom nerf is the Dr. 7 memes. I liked some of the hero-power nerf suggestions the community came up with, but the mana nerf should genuinely achieve the intended effect.
I would have liked to see Luna's at 6-mana to see how that plays out. I mean, if I were the Hearthstone Dev team I'd love to have that game data from the card at different mana points. They could have fully reverted in the future if it was still OP.
You're not just losing tempo, or, better put, you're not always losing tempo. You're losing a card. You're literally starting the game with one less card than the opponent, and the reward is an extra powerful card in the late-game. Changing the reward to an automatic hero-power upgrade was an interesting way to bypass having to play the reward, but I would argue that it probably takes three turns/hero-powers to make up the card disadvantage across so many turns. That should theoretically work in a control deck, but the card disadvantage is just too huge. I have to think that after this expansion the Hearthstone team will be completely done with Quests. A noble experiment that just didn't work.
The Elise/Nomi/Floop combo took me completely by surprise the first time I saw it. I was playing control Warrior, and still had two brawls in my hand. Then the third Nomi (Floop) came down, and my jaw dropped. It seems very, very, strong, although Maly has the benefit of just ending the game the turn you pull it off.
First of all, great article. It's a really good introduction to the concepts of deck archetypes. Remember midrange? Me neither. Midrange is basically just aggro.
I HATE Tip The Scales Paladin so much. Aggro decks aren't supposed to be able to draw through every card by turn 12. Not sure what needs to be done, but maybe a 1-mana nerf to Prismatic Lens, and a 1-draw nerf to Tastyfin.
As for control warrior, I like the community suggestion of nerfing Mad Genius by only giving Rush to the first Mech PLAYED each turn.
1) I've been playing against several varieties of Zoolock. All of them are very, very strong, but I don't think they're broken. It's never going away. It's going to always define the meta.
2) I don't think Quest Shaman is quite as OP as anticipated. It's very good, but playing with it or against it doesn't feel broken. Zoo can put a ton of pressure on it before it gets rolling.
3) I've been playing control singleton Mage and control singleton Hunter and having a blast. Reno, Brann, and Zephyrs absolutely carry these decks. Zephyrs is living up to the hype. It's ridiculously good. Reno is great against all these zoo decks. I think a version of each will be at least a tier-2 deck. Can't recommend crafting Zephyrs and playing around with him enough.
4) Here's my true knee-jerk opinion: Quest Paladin needs a nerf. I find it to be game-breaking on the same level as Jade Druid. Reborn minions are proving to be good, but not overpowered. However, the hero power in combination with Mechano-egg is game-breaking. The deck goes infinite with Mechano-eggs in the mid-game, and becomes impossible to beat. The original reason Paladin was given such a powerful deathrattle minion is because the class didn't have deathrattle synergies like Priest and Rogue. You would never give Paladin a card like Shadowy Figure, but the new hero power is essentially infinite Shadowy Figure. It's busted. The deck is also able to run lots of heal without an issue. It breaks control decks, and can easily survive aggro/zoo decks. Nerf the quest to hell.
I've been playing some singleton Mage and Hunter, and holy cow does that card carry whenever it's played. I'm starting to think it's good enough to have in a traditional control deck with 2x of several cards. If you consider that people hang on to Archivist Elysiana until 30 cards have been drawn, I think you could justify hanging on to this until about 20 cards have been drawn.
There's several versions of Zoolock running right now, and they're all fantastic, but also beatable.
Battlecry Shaman is obviously very good, but not quite as OP as I thought it might be.
I've been playing singleton Mage and Hunter and they're good! I went from Rank 9 to Rank 6 playing those two decks. Zephrys is absolutely amazing. I haven't lost a game where I got to play him. Giving me Brightwing on turn 2, Pyroblast on turn 20, or Flamestrike when I ask nicely, he absolutely lives up to his hype. More consistent than Kazakus, which is essential for the singleton decks. Oh yeah, Reno and Brann are no slouches either. Did I mention zoo is running rampant? New Reno is a way better turn 6 play than old Reno was against that type of deck.
Quest Paladin is absolutely busted. There will have to be a nerf. I was playing a heavy control deck and successfully cleared his Reborn minions 6-7 turns in a row (after he successfully completed quest) with cards and value to spare. I was gaining board control and he was running out of cards. Then he plops down a Mechano-egg, and there was no coming back. I'm genuinely not sure how to beat this deck. Zoo can maybe out-aggro it, but it also has tons of life gain. The real issue is that it breaks control decks with infinite value. And it might actually be a worse offender than Jade Druid. That deck went infinite at the end, which was also unfair to control decks, but Quest Paladin starts going infinite in the mid-game.
All in all the power level of decks being played feels ridiculously high right now, but Quest Paladin is the only one that I'm sure is actually broken. I give it four weeks tops before there's a nerf.
I have been asking for a Crystal Core change like this since before the very first nerf. One of the most poorly designed cards of all time, and not just because of its power level over the years.
I'm excited for this format. Not sure I realized how huge of a change going to a Bo3 format will be.
I'm actually really happy with all of these nerfs. Extra Arms and Conjurer's Calling both needed the mana nerf because of the Twinspell mechanic. Also, I'd be very sad if Northshire Cleric was nerfed, and its interaction with Extra Arms was simply too strong. Let Divine Spirit shine a bit longer, but then please put it in the HoF with the next rotation. It's absolutely limiting Priest design space.
The only thing wrong with the Dr. Boom nerf is the Dr. 7 memes. I liked some of the hero-power nerf suggestions the community came up with, but the mana nerf should genuinely achieve the intended effect.
I would have liked to see Luna's at 6-mana to see how that plays out. I mean, if I were the Hearthstone Dev team I'd love to have that game data from the card at different mana points. They could have fully reverted in the future if it was still OP.
Dr. Boom: Remove the armor hero-power from the rotation AND make the 3x 1/1 hero-power into a non-mech unit so they don't have Rush.
Conjurer's Calling: 4-mana
Luna's Pocket Galaxy: 6-mana
Prismatic Lens: 5-mana
Divine Spirit: Hall of Fame*
*I don't play Wild. I'm sure a better solution is needed there.
You're not just losing tempo, or, better put, you're not always losing tempo. You're losing a card. You're literally starting the game with one less card than the opponent, and the reward is an extra powerful card in the late-game. Changing the reward to an automatic hero-power upgrade was an interesting way to bypass having to play the reward, but I would argue that it probably takes three turns/hero-powers to make up the card disadvantage across so many turns. That should theoretically work in a control deck, but the card disadvantage is just too huge. I have to think that after this expansion the Hearthstone team will be completely done with Quests. A noble experiment that just didn't work.
The only other site I use these days is HSReply. Now that you two are partners, I'm all set.
The Elise/Nomi/Floop combo took me completely by surprise the first time I saw it. I was playing control Warrior, and still had two brawls in my hand. Then the third Nomi (Floop) came down, and my jaw dropped. It seems very, very, strong, although Maly has the benefit of just ending the game the turn you pull it off.
First of all, great article. It's a really good introduction to the concepts of deck archetypes. Remember midrange? Me neither. Midrange is basically just aggro.
I HATE Tip The Scales Paladin so much. Aggro decks aren't supposed to be able to draw through every card by turn 12. Not sure what needs to be done, but maybe a 1-mana nerf to Prismatic Lens, and a 1-draw nerf to Tastyfin.
As for control warrior, I like the community suggestion of nerfing Mad Genius by only giving Rush to the first Mech PLAYED each turn.
Alex should be moved to the Hall of Fame.
I hate playing against this deck so, so much.
1) I've been playing against several varieties of Zoolock. All of them are very, very strong, but I don't think they're broken. It's never going away. It's going to always define the meta.
2) I don't think Quest Shaman is quite as OP as anticipated. It's very good, but playing with it or against it doesn't feel broken. Zoo can put a ton of pressure on it before it gets rolling.
3) I've been playing control singleton Mage and control singleton Hunter and having a blast. Reno, Brann, and Zephyrs absolutely carry these decks. Zephyrs is living up to the hype. It's ridiculously good. Reno is great against all these zoo decks. I think a version of each will be at least a tier-2 deck. Can't recommend crafting Zephyrs and playing around with him enough.
4) Here's my true knee-jerk opinion: Quest Paladin needs a nerf. I find it to be game-breaking on the same level as Jade Druid. Reborn minions are proving to be good, but not overpowered. However, the hero power in combination with Mechano-egg is game-breaking. The deck goes infinite with Mechano-eggs in the mid-game, and becomes impossible to beat. The original reason Paladin was given such a powerful deathrattle minion is because the class didn't have deathrattle synergies like Priest and Rogue. You would never give Paladin a card like Shadowy Figure, but the new hero power is essentially infinite Shadowy Figure. It's busted. The deck is also able to run lots of heal without an issue. It breaks control decks, and can easily survive aggro/zoo decks. Nerf the quest to hell.
I've been playing some singleton Mage and Hunter, and holy cow does that card carry whenever it's played. I'm starting to think it's good enough to have in a traditional control deck with 2x of several cards. If you consider that people hang on to Archivist Elysiana until 30 cards have been drawn, I think you could justify hanging on to this until about 20 cards have been drawn.
Impressions so far.
There's several versions of Zoolock running right now, and they're all fantastic, but also beatable.
Battlecry Shaman is obviously very good, but not quite as OP as I thought it might be.
I've been playing singleton Mage and Hunter and they're good! I went from Rank 9 to Rank 6 playing those two decks. Zephrys is absolutely amazing. I haven't lost a game where I got to play him. Giving me Brightwing on turn 2, Pyroblast on turn 20, or Flamestrike when I ask nicely, he absolutely lives up to his hype. More consistent than Kazakus, which is essential for the singleton decks. Oh yeah, Reno and Brann are no slouches either. Did I mention zoo is running rampant? New Reno is a way better turn 6 play than old Reno was against that type of deck.
Quest Paladin is absolutely busted. There will have to be a nerf. I was playing a heavy control deck and successfully cleared his Reborn minions 6-7 turns in a row (after he successfully completed quest) with cards and value to spare. I was gaining board control and he was running out of cards. Then he plops down a Mechano-egg, and there was no coming back. I'm genuinely not sure how to beat this deck. Zoo can maybe out-aggro it, but it also has tons of life gain. The real issue is that it breaks control decks with infinite value. And it might actually be a worse offender than Jade Druid. That deck went infinite at the end, which was also unfair to control decks, but Quest Paladin starts going infinite in the mid-game.
All in all the power level of decks being played feels ridiculously high right now, but Quest Paladin is the only one that I'm sure is actually broken. I give it four weeks tops before there's a nerf.
Was anything datamined about special quests or free packs on launch? Future brawls? I got the new lackey today playing constructed.
I have been asking for a Crystal Core change like this since before the very first nerf. One of the most poorly designed cards of all time, and not just because of its power level over the years.
Amazing news and great work. I predict this very very good thing will only grow into something even better.
Never skip croc day!
You're tearing me apart Scorpid!
This ain't it chie... commander.
This feels like a Hagatha nerf. You're never going to run this in a deck, and you don't have totems after you've played Hagatha.
I don't care if it's good. I'm playing control Hunter this expansion.
Confirmed fourth option or is the mystery one of the three discover choices?