I can't believe you're trying to support your argument with a sob story about control warlock, of all things. If you truly think watch posts were keeping that deck down, get ready to agree with me hardcore on the nerfs.
That no one leaves them up is what creates the illusion that they are OP. If people were less psychotic about clearing them, they'd see how balanced they actually are (were, before the nerfs). I have won many, many games by ignoring them when they weren't actually a threat. The trick is knowing when that is.
It was nice when there were cards that punished people for wasting resources mindlessly clearing things that didn't need clearing. Oh, well.
Yeah, that's kind of the whole point of them. That's exactly the tradeoff for "Can't attack," and it's not unfair. It's just something people aren't used to, so they are acting like a bunch of babies.
Sword nerf is fine, but Paladin has plenty of other problematic elements.
Flinger nerf is fine, but I wouldn't have minded something that utterly destroyed it.
Lunacy nerf may not go far enough. Turn 1 or 2 Lunacy was never that deck's biggest problem (a big one, but not the biggest). The real problems are the small spell pool and the ridiculous mana discounts.
Watch Post nerfs are completely stupid and unnecessary. I get that they have high win rates, but a lot of that is because people are still bad at playing against them. Far Watch Post, for example, can be ignored a lot of the time, but people needlessly sink a bunch of resources into removing it. I hate it when they fix players' ineptitude with a nerf.
Not sure who the "you" is in your message, but when the developers talk about what's not fun, they actually have some specific criteria in mind. It's not just "I lost a game because of X." Some examples:
Decks that allow one player to take a lot more actions than the opponent
Decks that play "solitaire" Hearthstone, not giving the opponent any opportunity to counter the win condition
Decks that destroy win conditions with no possible play-around (e.g., Tickatus)
If you think about it, you can see how these are all similar, but not completely identical. Getting a handle on those similarities will give you a better understanding of what people mean when they say "unfun." It has to do with interactivity, the feeling that both sides are playing the game, and the feeling that there's at least some chance of winning.
On the other hand, a Priest outhealing aggro has all kinds of interaction and opportunity on both sides. The aggro player may face an uphill battle, but at least you're playing a game that can be won.
You think they'll nerf Stealth Rogue when Watch Post Rogue is nearly five times as popular? That doesn't make any sense if the goal is to diversify the meta. Jandice and Octo-bot are the cards they've said they are looking at.
It's not the community's place to "go to bat" for anyone in a case like this, one way or the other, and Zalae's opinion on an unrelated matter should have no bearing on this decision. The fact that you even bring it up shows why the community has no business getting involved.
Don't know the guy personally, but his cocky online persona doesn't make me doubt Rini's story in the slightest.
I was not aware of his attitude toward the Reward Track controversy. FWIW I would have been 100 percent on his side on that, and he absolutely does not deserve any backlash for not falling in line with the hivemind on such an overblown issue.
He does, however, deserve some backlash if Rini's account has any truth to it. He should have realized he needed to learn some anger management skills long before it got to this point.
Never a good sign when a deck's worst matchup is itself.
It makes me wonder if Team 5 didn't think people would combine the Libram package (which was already slightly too strong) with the powerful new Secret tools. Did they think the new package would actually weaken the old one? Did they think there was some reason the two wouldn't work well together? Did they simply not test the two packages in the same deck?
At 5 mana, Refreshing Spring Water is exactly the same as Arcane Intellect with one minion drawn. That's not horrible, especially considering no-minion decks run both cards anyway -- and you're always going to get full discount in that deck unless you choose to shuffle a Solarian. Draw two for 1 mana is still insanely good value.
The card is supposed to be a bit of a gamble for decks with minions. It makes sense that it would "break even" with Arcane Intellect when you draw one and one. It does not make sense that they made it cost 4 in the first place.
There is nothing wrong with the watch posts. Leave the watch posts alone.
Sure, they can be frustrating to play against in the same way Annoy-o-Tron was frustrating back in the day (less so now), but that's not a reason to nerf them. The whole point of them is to slow the game down, and that's all they do. There's no clearly oppressive archetype that absolutely depends on watch posts. Any oppressive deck that uses them will find a way to be oppressive without them.
I can't believe you're trying to support your argument with a sob story about control warlock, of all things. If you truly think watch posts were keeping that deck down, get ready to agree with me hardcore on the nerfs.
That no one leaves them up is what creates the illusion that they are OP. If people were less psychotic about clearing them, they'd see how balanced they actually are (were, before the nerfs). I have won many, many games by ignoring them when they weren't actually a threat. The trick is knowing when that is.
It was nice when there were cards that punished people for wasting resources mindlessly clearing things that didn't need clearing. Oh, well.
Then they should actually have Taunt, because as I said, they are no longer playable in this state.
Yeah, that's kind of the whole point of them. That's exactly the tradeoff for "Can't attack," and it's not unfair. It's just something people aren't used to, so they are acting like a bunch of babies.
This nerf is going to make them unplayable.
Jandice nerf is perfect.
Sword nerf is fine, but Paladin has plenty of other problematic elements.
Flinger nerf is fine, but I wouldn't have minded something that utterly destroyed it.
Lunacy nerf may not go far enough. Turn 1 or 2 Lunacy was never that deck's biggest problem (a big one, but not the biggest). The real problems are the small spell pool and the ridiculous mana discounts.
Watch Post nerfs are completely stupid and unnecessary. I get that they have high win rates, but a lot of that is because people are still bad at playing against them. Far Watch Post, for example, can be ignored a lot of the time, but people needlessly sink a bunch of resources into removing it. I hate it when they fix players' ineptitude with a nerf.
Hearthstone should never, ever reward high apm.
I've been hoping for the return of a skin I don't have yet. Should have known it would be THIS.
Who could have possibly guessed massive mana discounts and infinite value could cause problems in Hearthstone?!
If you can't win without Tickatus, you deserve to have it stolen.
Not sure who the "you" is in your message, but when the developers talk about what's not fun, they actually have some specific criteria in mind. It's not just "I lost a game because of X." Some examples:
If you think about it, you can see how these are all similar, but not completely identical. Getting a handle on those similarities will give you a better understanding of what people mean when they say "unfun." It has to do with interactivity, the feeling that both sides are playing the game, and the feeling that there's at least some chance of winning.
On the other hand, a Priest outhealing aggro has all kinds of interaction and opportunity on both sides. The aggro player may face an uphill battle, but at least you're playing a game that can be won.
You think they'll nerf Stealth Rogue when Watch Post Rogue is nearly five times as popular? That doesn't make any sense if the goal is to diversify the meta. Jandice and Octo-bot are the cards they've said they are looking at.
It's not the community's place to "go to bat" for anyone in a case like this, one way or the other, and Zalae's opinion on an unrelated matter should have no bearing on this decision. The fact that you even bring it up shows why the community has no business getting involved.
Don't know the guy personally, but his cocky online persona doesn't make me doubt Rini's story in the slightest.
I was not aware of his attitude toward the Reward Track controversy. FWIW I would have been 100 percent on his side on that, and he absolutely does not deserve any backlash for not falling in line with the hivemind on such an overblown issue.
He does, however, deserve some backlash if Rini's account has any truth to it. He should have realized he needed to learn some anger management skills long before it got to this point.
I think the number in the Solo Adventures menu indicates how many stories remain in the entire Book of Mercenaries -- so 9 out of 10?
The achievement is definitely bugged, though. Mine shows 0/8 even though I have the crown and the card pack as well.
In which we learn that Guff Runetotem is "special."
I completely agree. Once the glaring issues are addressed, we'll be in a pretty good place.
Never a good sign when a deck's worst matchup is itself.
It makes me wonder if Team 5 didn't think people would combine the Libram package (which was already slightly too strong) with the powerful new Secret tools. Did they think the new package would actually weaken the old one? Did they think there was some reason the two wouldn't work well together? Did they simply not test the two packages in the same deck?
It boggles the mind.
I made a partial prediction somewhere else, but I guess I'll do the full thing here since we now know how many and which classes.
Efficient Octo-bot --> 3 health (down from 4)
Deck of Lunacy --> ... into random spells that cost (1) more (down from (3) more, still hoping they clean up the wording)
Refreshing Spring Water --> 5 mana (up from 4) -- On par with Arcane Intellect when you draw one minion
Sword of the Fallen --> 4 mana (up from 2) -- That's how much 3 secrets and a 1/3 weapon should cost.
Pen Flinger --> 2 mana (up from 1) -- Does this kill the card completely? I doubt it, but I also don't care.
Jandice Barov --> 6 mana (up from 5) -- Still quite playable, but not universally so.
At 5 mana, Refreshing Spring Water is exactly the same as Arcane Intellect with one minion drawn. That's not horrible, especially considering no-minion decks run both cards anyway -- and you're always going to get full discount in that deck unless you choose to shuffle a Solarian. Draw two for 1 mana is still insanely good value.
The card is supposed to be a bit of a gamble for decks with minions. It makes sense that it would "break even" with Arcane Intellect when you draw one and one. It does not make sense that they made it cost 4 in the first place.
There is nothing wrong with the watch posts. Leave the watch posts alone.
Sure, they can be frustrating to play against in the same way Annoy-o-Tron was frustrating back in the day (less so now), but that's not a reason to nerf them. The whole point of them is to slow the game down, and that's all they do. There's no clearly oppressive archetype that absolutely depends on watch posts. Any oppressive deck that uses them will find a way to be oppressive without them.