I don't get it, how does it beat Warlock? They don't fatigue damage and you're just going to run out of armor eventually, unless your plan is to keep copying Albatross to keep them from taking fatigue and then just grind out the turn limit.
So it turns out I don't actually have enough cards to fill a 30 card deck .... I literally cannot play this Brawl, why are core cards not available Blizzard fucking please.
Alright, I just found a fun new feature. It turns out that if you don't have a full deck you can still queue up with less than 30 cards. Jade Idol just got a lot better
Alright, never mind, the game just autofills the rest of your deck with random cards. At least they accounted for that possibility.
I mean they do balance around Standard primarily so I don't know what you were even expecting. As far as I'm aware Mage isn't the nnumber one problem in Wild right now
sample size and matchups please. I doubt you're gonna perform all that well when your opponent casually decks you in the face over multiple turns while you were busy not clearing his threats on 3.
The data's gonna roll in eventually, Mage wasn't even that good before the nerfs and it most certainly hasn't gotten better.
Mage will die out. I've just beaten one as Shadow Control Priest (Flightmaster Dungar is pretty good when he nukes for 12). They're just not fast enough anymore when they have to coin out Flow on 2.
Warlock is basically unaffected if you play the Soul Rend build, meaning there will always be a huge roadblock for any control deck, especially since the Battlemaster and Flesh Giant nerfs don't affect that deck nearly as much so it can still scam wins with them.
OTK DH should at least be gone for good so as long as you dodge the Warlock matchups control decks are playable at least.
Also Hunter should be much weaker against tempo decks now at the very least.
I'm kind of bummed out that they flaked on just outright deleting Battlemaster from the game, because I've been enjoying playing Quest Warlock as a Control build without the Battlemasters and only using Giants for pressure (innstead of lethal).
Since they only love-tapped the giants and Battlemaster is as playable at 6 as it is as 5 as long as you don't need to combo it with a buff spell like Paladin does I don't think there's any reason to drop it from the build.
but then you'd ruin Mo'arg for every other deck as well (especially stuff like Warlock using it quadruple lifesteal off Drain Soul). It's not an overpowered card by itself, it just got abused in a deck that had no business existing in the first place.
that's just demonstrably false and has been proven to be false many times over in the past.
Flow and Growth are absolutely comparable because both of them WANT to be played at 2 and are significantly worse when played at 3 (and are also much worse when you want to play them later on because you have to pay extra mana.
Quest Mage right now thrives on being able to turbo out the quest while filling out their curve efficiently. Can't fill out your curve with 3-mana do nothing.
The Darkglare one is also way more huge than you realize because
a) Free Admission no longer discounts it to 0 but only to 1 and the difference between those is MASSIVE and
b) Zoo can't get it down nearly as fast giving you at least one more turn to assemble countermeasures. WE're no longer in a meta where 2-mana deal 3 is all that common so it's so much easier to stick a 2/3 in the early turns. A 3/4 is sturdier but less likely to land on an empty board.
At the end of the day I don#t really have to convince you because the results will speak for themselves. Mage will pretty much disappear after this because it has no game against any tempo deck and can only counter slow control decks and all the Warlock builds that used to abuse Darkglare will become way too slow (there weren't even that good to begin with).
that one's the D6 version (6 demons, alathough there are also hybrid version with the Zoo build, but those are even worse).
Basically you have 3 main archetypes:
-Zoo with Flesh Giants and the Imps (runs Darkglare)
-D6 Stealer of Turns with the triple demon package to reliably discount them with Free admissions (also runs Darkglare but no Giants)
-Soul Rend "Control" (which runs Giants and Battlemaster. Also has the potential to be less aggressive and just go for full control which I'm currently doing with quite a lot of success)
The first two builds are probably going to disappear now that Darkglare is much weaker and Flesh Giant is slightly delayed (Zoo really only cared about early giants). The Soul Rend build is more adaptable and bassically loses nothing because it doesn't rely on rushing out the Giants and only cares about eventually being iin a situation where they can stick them to the board and win the next turn (while also having the best chance at just stalling until the Quest reward wins by itself).
But the Control build doesn't run Darkglare. The Control build runs Soul Rend and tries to scam with Flesh Giants + Battlemaster while not giving a shit about the actual quest reward unless everything else fails.
You do realize that the Il'gynoth change means that you can't actually do a reasonable combo without getting discounts...which are pretty much random (unless you run Felscreamer, which is clunky as fuck)
You're severely underestimating how hard the Flow nerf is going to hit. Not being able to Flow on two is huge. You get one less discount because you have to wait an additional turn and you spend one more turn doing nothing.
You also can't go Flow into Intellect anymore, which was a great way to shore up cheap ressources.
Basically Flow was the card that enabled mage to win unfavored matchups because it was just that unfair. Now they give their opponents and extra turn of early pressure. This is literally the Wild Growth nerf again and that basically turned a must-play on turn 2 into an optional card that's only played in very greedy ramp decks.
I doubt that Mage will even be around after this (unless some other archetype picks up the scraps). Their only purpose now is to beat slower control deck that don't currently exist (outside of maybe Shaman).
Flesh Giant is too low though, I agree. I've played copious amounts of Warlock at this point and most of the time you're either 1-mana short or have the discount overcharged anyways. With Battlemaster only at 6 it makes no difference for the Soul Rend decks while the other two builds are basically dead thanks to the Darkglare nerf.
Also you seem to have no real grasp on how much of a difference a single mana crystal makes. Darkglare is now basically unplayable in Standard because you can't discount it to 0-mana anymore and it requires way more mana to pop off. Also it's way less useful when it comes out of Raise Dead now.
I really hope that Mo'arg Artificer doesn't get the hammer because it's actually a versatile card with different applications and it#d be a shame if it got dumpstered just because of the obviously idiotic design of Il'gynoth. Lifesteal DH just shouldn't exist in the first place. It's basically the old Freeze Mage except it doesn't have a realistic damage ceiling.
It's still gonna be stupid to see games end up as "oh look, he managed to discount enough of his combo pieces in time, I guess he just wins now".
At least with Mage there are some legitimate counter strategies and mana breakpoints to be taken into consideration. With DH it's just "technically he can kill me by turn 6 so I have to assume he will and also he draws so many cards that trying to predict what he has in hand is effectively pointless".
I wish they would just nuke that abomination of a deck out of existence, it's the main reason I've stopped watching tournaments.
I'll personally enjoy all those OTK Rogue vs. OTK Demon Hunter matchups were both players try to most skillfully draw through their entire decks and hope they assemble their combo by turn 6.
Aggro decks are also very beatable by the current roster of Control decks, but most of them can't beat Combo decks in any capacity. The closest is Shadow Control Priest and that's only because Illucia can instawin against Rogues and Demon Hunters and at least has a shot against the Quest decks.
In my opinion there should never be more than 2 viable combo decks, because anything more than that and the meta quickly warps around trying to counter those.
Right now we have at least 4 and that's evidently too much.
Pretty sure this is still just across all ranks. Quest Mage requires way more game knowledge to properly pilot (aside from skillfully topdecking Flow on 2 ofc). Never mind, I can't read.
I'd be very surprised if Quest Mage doesn't end up getting nerfed in some way, even if it's just Flow (which is probably enough at this point unless they also want to make a full control meta happen.
Aggro Hunter is really predictable and easy to beat as long as you're not playing a combo deck without healing. It's fairly easy to outtempo once you get past the initial onslaught and any sort of burst healing shuts it down.
I don't get it, how does it beat Warlock? They don't fatigue damage and you're just going to run out of armor eventually, unless your plan is to keep copying Albatross to keep them from taking fatigue and then just grind out the turn limit.
So it turns out I don't actually have enough cards to fill a 30 card deck .... I literally cannot play this Brawl, why are core cards not available Blizzard fucking please.
Alright, I just found a fun new feature. It turns out that if you don't have a full deck you can still queue up with less than 30 cards. Jade Idol just got a lot better
Alright, never mind, the game just autofills the rest of your deck with random cards. At least they accounted for that possibility.
I mean they do balance around Standard primarily so I don't know what you were even expecting. As far as I'm aware Mage isn't the nnumber one problem in Wild right now
sample size and matchups please. I doubt you're gonna perform all that well when your opponent casually decks you in the face over multiple turns while you were busy not clearing his threats on 3.
The data's gonna roll in eventually, Mage wasn't even that good before the nerfs and it most certainly hasn't gotten better.
Mage will die out. I've just beaten one as Shadow Control Priest (Flightmaster Dungar is pretty good when he nukes for 12). They're just not fast enough anymore when they have to coin out Flow on 2.
Warlock is basically unaffected if you play the Soul Rend build, meaning there will always be a huge roadblock for any control deck, especially since the Battlemaster and Flesh Giant nerfs don't affect that deck nearly as much so it can still scam wins with them.
OTK DH should at least be gone for good so as long as you dodge the Warlock matchups control decks are playable at least.
Also Hunter should be much weaker against tempo decks now at the very least.
I'm kind of bummed out that they flaked on just outright deleting Battlemaster from the game, because I've been enjoying playing Quest Warlock as a Control build without the Battlemasters and only using Giants for pressure (innstead of lethal).
Since they only love-tapped the giants and Battlemaster is as playable at 6 as it is as 5 as long as you don't need to combo it with a buff spell like Paladin does I don't think there's any reason to drop it from the build.
but then you'd ruin Mo'arg for every other deck as well (especially stuff like Warlock using it quadruple lifesteal off Drain Soul). It's not an overpowered card by itself, it just got abused in a deck that had no business existing in the first place.
that's just demonstrably false and has been proven to be false many times over in the past.
Flow and Growth are absolutely comparable because both of them WANT to be played at 2 and are significantly worse when played at 3 (and are also much worse when you want to play them later on because you have to pay extra mana.
Quest Mage right now thrives on being able to turbo out the quest while filling out their curve efficiently. Can't fill out your curve with 3-mana do nothing.
The Darkglare one is also way more huge than you realize because
a) Free Admission no longer discounts it to 0 but only to 1 and the difference between those is MASSIVE and
b) Zoo can't get it down nearly as fast giving you at least one more turn to assemble countermeasures. WE're no longer in a meta where 2-mana deal 3 is all that common so it's so much easier to stick a 2/3 in the early turns. A 3/4 is sturdier but less likely to land on an empty board.
At the end of the day I don#t really have to convince you because the results will speak for themselves. Mage will pretty much disappear after this because it has no game against any tempo deck and can only counter slow control decks and all the Warlock builds that used to abuse Darkglare will become way too slow (there weren't even that good to begin with).
that one's the D6 version (6 demons, alathough there are also hybrid version with the Zoo build, but those are even worse).
Basically you have 3 main archetypes:
-Zoo with Flesh Giants and the Imps (runs Darkglare)
-D6 Stealer of Turns with the triple demon package to reliably discount them with Free admissions (also runs Darkglare but no Giants)
-Soul Rend "Control" (which runs Giants and Battlemaster. Also has the potential to be less aggressive and just go for full control which I'm currently doing with quite a lot of success)
The first two builds are probably going to disappear now that Darkglare is much weaker and Flesh Giant is slightly delayed (Zoo really only cared about early giants). The Soul Rend build is more adaptable and bassically loses nothing because it doesn't rely on rushing out the Giants and only cares about eventually being iin a situation where they can stick them to the board and win the next turn (while also having the best chance at just stalling until the Quest reward wins by itself).
just play Frost Giant instead
But the Control build doesn't run Darkglare. The Control build runs Soul Rend and tries to scam with Flesh Giants + Battlemaster while not giving a shit about the actual quest reward unless everything else fails.
You do realize that the Il'gynoth change means that you can't actually do a reasonable combo without getting discounts...which are pretty much random (unless you run Felscreamer, which is clunky as fuck)
You're severely underestimating how hard the Flow nerf is going to hit. Not being able to Flow on two is huge. You get one less discount because you have to wait an additional turn and you spend one more turn doing nothing.
You also can't go Flow into Intellect anymore, which was a great way to shore up cheap ressources.
Basically Flow was the card that enabled mage to win unfavored matchups because it was just that unfair. Now they give their opponents and extra turn of early pressure. This is literally the Wild Growth nerf again and that basically turned a must-play on turn 2 into an optional card that's only played in very greedy ramp decks.
I doubt that Mage will even be around after this (unless some other archetype picks up the scraps). Their only purpose now is to beat slower control deck that don't currently exist (outside of maybe Shaman).
Flesh Giant is too low though, I agree. I've played copious amounts of Warlock at this point and most of the time you're either 1-mana short or have the discount overcharged anyways. With Battlemaster only at 6 it makes no difference for the Soul Rend decks while the other two builds are basically dead thanks to the Darkglare nerf.
Also you seem to have no real grasp on how much of a difference a single mana crystal makes. Darkglare is now basically unplayable in Standard because you can't discount it to 0-mana anymore and it requires way more mana to pop off. Also it's way less useful when it comes out of Raise Dead now.
Weeeell that's probably not gonna do much overall.
Battlemaster at 6 is still way too op and I won't be surprised if it has to be nerfed a 2ndd time later down the line (aka 2 weeks from now).
Flesh Giant also seems like more of a slap than an actual nerf. It needs to be at 10-mana to actually curb those early double Giant turns.
As far as I see the Deck burn Control Questlock will remain a tier one deck with this because it almost exclusively benefits from all the other nerfs.
I really hope that Mo'arg Artificer doesn't get the hammer because it's actually a versatile card with different applications and it#d be a shame if it got dumpstered just because of the obviously idiotic design of Il'gynoth. Lifesteal DH just shouldn't exist in the first place. It's basically the old Freeze Mage except it doesn't have a realistic damage ceiling.
It's still gonna be stupid to see games end up as "oh look, he managed to discount enough of his combo pieces in time, I guess he just wins now".
At least with Mage there are some legitimate counter strategies and mana breakpoints to be taken into consideration. With DH it's just "technically he can kill me by turn 6 so I have to assume he will and also he draws so many cards that trying to predict what he has in hand is effectively pointless".
I wish they would just nuke that abomination of a deck out of existence, it's the main reason I've stopped watching tournaments.
I'll personally enjoy all those OTK Rogue vs. OTK Demon Hunter matchups were both players try to most skillfully draw through their entire decks and hope they assemble their combo by turn 6.
Aggro decks are also very beatable by the current roster of Control decks, but most of them can't beat Combo decks in any capacity. The closest is Shadow Control Priest and that's only because Illucia can instawin against Rogues and Demon Hunters and at least has a shot against the Quest decks.
In my opinion there should never be more than 2 viable combo decks, because anything more than that and the meta quickly warps around trying to counter those.
Right now we have at least 4 and that's evidently too much.
yeah, just like Priest didn't get nerfed because it had sub 50 winrate below Legend.
If Flow doesn't get shafted this time we're not going to see another Control deck until the next rotation.
The only reason Mage even performs this badly is because there's like 3 other OTK decks and everyone's trying their hardest to counter them.
Pretty sure this is still just across all ranks. Quest Mage requires way more game knowledge to properly pilot (aside from skillfully topdecking Flow on 2 ofc). Never mind, I can't read.
I'd be very surprised if Quest Mage doesn't end up getting nerfed in some way, even if it's just Flow (which is probably enough at this point unless they also want to make a full control meta happen.
Aggro Hunter is really predictable and easy to beat as long as you're not playing a combo deck without healing. It's fairly easy to outtempo once you get past the initial onslaught and any sort of burst healing shuts it down.