i'll be honest, all of those legendaries you have listed as your third option are pretty bad. you probably know that and just want to craft them for fun. I think either yogg saron, or old murkeye. yogg is a build around card and you will be able to play a bunch of decks you could never play otherwise, old murkeye is just a good card in any murloc deck. the other ones mostly seem like just random niche cards that you could easily play without.
Ahm... Aluneth is one of the best cards in Secret Mage (a tier 1 deck):
Dunno about standard, but in wild Armagedillo gained a lot of popularity due to the amazing support the format can offer. Warriors have built a more mid-rangy quest deck:
just the shaman quest, aside from that I already have all the cards.
my other legendary will be dinotamer brann.
I see, Brann is a good legendary. Anyway before you jump on the ladder with my deck, I would advise you to check some of people's posts in the Quest Jade shaman thread first. I've mentioned there, that my current list doesn't do well against burn mages; it runs some tech cards, but it can't achieve victories consistently. The reason why I am advising you to go there is because you might get an inspiration to try out different builds/packages.
Is Zola and Bog Slosher even desirable for that deck? I ran Zola before the quest came out to get more fuel but with the new hero power I have more than enough gas to overwhelm enemies, and Zola thus felt both redundant and terribly slow, and Slosher seems to make the Shudder boards worse, as it both fills my hand with Lackeys and then mills the bounced Jades.
If you ask me, this isn't that much of a problem. As long as you play a lot of jade summoners prior to Shudderwock, you will have plenty of jades on the board, which will threaten the opponent. Personally for me, both of those cards are fine, as it doesn't hurt to gain extra value from Sludge Slurper, EVIL Cable Rat and Jade Spirit against Reno or Taunt Warrior. Sometimes I play Shudder, in order to refill my hand and protect my value from an annoying Dirty Rat. Oftentimes I copy/bounce Loatheb, in order to shut down the opponent's board clears.
But this is only regarding all matchups beside burn mage. I agree with you, as I've said it before, that jade quest shaman isn't good in a meta, where burn mage is running rampant.
Normally when a deck is super popular, I take a look at the stats but in this case ...
Looks like it wins its worst matchup is almost 60% of the time, which is hilarious. This is a 41k sample size, so it's not some kind of fluke.
Wow, that's just disgusting. I am curious to see how the meta will look like in a couple of weeks and I really hope wild doesn't have that AK74 problem again.
I also think that anti-secret techs are suboptimal, but what else can you do to fight burn mages? If your deck isn't suited to deal with them optimally, you either add some tech cards or go for a different playstyle.
Burn mages can ruin the opponent's tempo in various ways - burning or copying enemy minions, cancelling spells, dealing with durablewide boards. So swarm decks like odd paladin, that can't buff their minions on time, will lose their board rather quickly, spell heavy decks like big priest can't handle the ammount of pressure their opponents will generate. What is left are some minion-based control decks with a lot of sustain and some mid-range decks (who won't be unlucky enough to take a lot of damage from losing small minions to Explosive Runes and letting their bigger threats getting copied by Mirror Entity). High health, low-cost minions could also appear more often, because those counter the aforementioned secrets quite nicely. If I follow this logic, then maybe IF priest will gain popularity again (although this will be kinda hard to do with the nerf to Extra Arms).
A few days ago I created a budget token dudu deck and played some games with it in casual. My very first game was against burn mage and I won that match thanks to the gross amount of buffs I could apply to my mininos. I didn't rush my units into the opponent's face prematurely, so that I wouldn't proc Flame Ward and lose my board. I'm not promoting this deck or anything, I was lucky that the opponent didn't draw Arcane Flakmage on time, but I've noticed that they couldn't deal with wide and tall boards as well.
A lighning storm seem to be a good card to fit in but the two overload make me worry.
I used to run LS in my original build, because in the very first days of the expansion I faced a lot of swarm decks (odd pala, murloc pala and shamen, mech hunters). But once I climbed to rank 3 and people jumped on the secret mage bandwagon, most of the aforementioned decklists ceased to exist. I also think, that this AOE would be a great addition to the deck in general, but I'm really sceptical it will be any useful in this meta if things don't change. Against burn mages a 2/3-damage board clear is not what I typically want, especially when it overloads me like you said.
I followed Snapshot426's advice and tried out Hagatha's Scheme. I found the card to be useful against burn mages, which put a lot of pressure on the board (Kabal Crystal Runners, Kirin Tor Mages), but I don't like how slowly it upgrades itself, if I top-deck it in the mid- or lategame. That's why I put so many lackey generators in my deck, so that I could use them to fight for board control.
Now, in order for me to answer your question as best as possible, I would like to share two different crafting guides with you, so that you can get an objective opition on the aforementioned legendaries:
And in previous ones aggro decks included him as a tech choice against control (e.g. Pirate Warrior, Odd Hunter, Mid-range Hunter, Aggro Anyfin Paladin, Secret Paladin, Aggro Overload Shaman). Last expansion Loatheb rose even more in popularity, in order to counter the numerous miracle mages on the ladder. Now he serves the same purpose, but against the infamous burn mage.
Zola on the other hand is used in fewer decklists:
Reno Warlock
Reno Mage
Shudderwock Shaman
But with the increase of burn mages on the ladder, healing decks stood as their biggest counter and imho Zola the Gorgon is essential in there.
So if our discussion regarded the utility of those legendaries, I would say that both of them are safe crafts in this meta, but Loatheb is the best candidate overall. Now, if I have to regard my deck, I would say that Zola isn't really mandatory, though she offers a big help in outvaluing our opponent or copying vital cards (Eater of Secrets, Antique Healbot, Sandstorm Elemental, Loatheb and sometimes Shudderwock). The Bog Sloshers should be enough for you for now. I'm still experimenting with the deck, so I can't give you any proper tips on how to refine it, but I think that Zilliax will fill this gap.
Someone really loves to downvote people here. :D Anyway from my ladder experience, I can say the following:
Secret Mage has the biggest impact on the meta. When the entire SOU set was revealed, I knew this deck would be very dominant, but I didn't expect to see mech hunters, odd paladins and odd rogues to disappear from the ladder and Reno lists to take their place. Here's a list of the different decks I played against between rank 6-Legend:
I can't foresee what decks will remain popular until the next expansion, but for now I will repeat what others have said before me - Burn Mage and Reno Decks are here to stay. Boulster Quest Warrior has a lot of potential imo, same goes to the new version of Even Shaman. Healing and armour gain are the natural counters to burn, so maybe Odd Warriors will appear again, but I am curious to see how they will outvalue Reno decks.
Your new list. My winrate is now about 50%, I think I just had a really bad run of matchups and card draw. It happens
Yeah, that happens. Yesterday I went to rank 1**** with my previous list and lost a lot of games, so I fell back to rank 3. Climbed a bit and from rank 2 onwards I just used the current build (I had 3 or 4 losses with it).
Btw right now I'm writing the deck guide, so if you are interested, it will be finished soon.
I assume you want to express your contempt with this mechanic, right? Well, it's no surprise that it's broken and it will continue to see massive play in wild.
I have just caught this thread so I'm a bit confused. In your last post you said you removed the Eater but it is listed (as far as I can see now).
About secret mage, I think if you can heal in mid game, you can stabilize, so the Healbot is really important. Also sometimes you can magnetize Zilliax on him, have you tried this one? At least he can heal you for 3 in the worst case scenario...
If someday I get this quest, I'll definitely try your deck!!
Thanks for your kind words and the tips.
I used to run 2 Eater of Secrets, but I removed the second copy.
Thanks for sharing your decklist, it looks really solid. But I think, that in terms of the jade package we mostly use the same cards. Your deck utilizes only the good jade summoners, but at the end Shudderwock does all the work and summons massive green men for both of us. I really like the overload package you've included, since it allows you to gain board control in the early game and overwhelm your enemies with whatever cards you throw at them.
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Congratulations on reaching legend too. If you're still interested in developing your deck, I've found that Zilliax may be a good fit in the current meta. Mage plays a lot of 3 health things, so it lines up wonderfully and it's good for disarming explosive runes. It's also not as useless as secret techs against other things
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely consider him.
I dont know, Tar Creeper? Lone Champion? Mind Control Tech? Could be anything to help with early game and/or combat the board, since that was your argument. But if you like Jinyu and it is working out for you, then keep it :)
If I have to be honest with you, I also thought about using Tar Creeper, since it offers the best cheap taunt in the game, but I wasn't really sure if I wanted to include non-battlecry minions and delay quest completion. NightCrawler advised me to run Zilliax, so I might consider him. I am certain, that healing is needed, since the deck doesn't have that many defensive tools.
Regarding MCT - I tried him and I was really disappointed in him in wild (in standard the gnome was doing fine). The reason for that lies in the fact, that either the opponents have 3 big minions on the board and I can't use his battlecry or, if I hold him in my hand in order to gain value, I risk taking a lot of damage and I just dig my own grave. And there are other cases, when I just low-roll and take the worst minion. That's why I decided to use Plague of Murlocs and this is doing extremely well for me.
Like I said, I will stick with Antique Healbot for now, since Burn Mages are extremely popular. If the meta somehow changes, I might include Jinyu again.
I found in terms of healing, Antique Healbot is more reliable and capable of burst heals in the lategame.
Definitely have to agree with this. I used to run Jinyu as well when i used to play Jade Shaman for exactly the same reason, better body, and even some overload synergy (i had Tunnel Troggs), but at the end of the day, you put that card in to heal yourself and if you cant guarantee that out of Shudderwock, you might as well put a completely different card in the deck that will help prevent the damage taken in a first place better. Healbot is imho a vast superior option, since it is guaranteed.
Well, may I say the following? Running Antique Healbot in a Shudderwock deck wasn't something unusual for me. In the past I created various decklists featuring C'Thun and Yogg and the bot was useful there. But those utilized a defensive playstyle, so running the 5-mana minion made sense. My current deck tries to be somewhat proactive and I think the Jinyu is better against board-centered decks like Odd Rogue and Zoolock, which don't aim to burn you on the spot, but to slowly gain board control and overwhelm you from there. And I liked the prior minion far more than the mech, as it contests the opponent's minions and I can play it a turn earlier. If I can't survive until turn 9, then the healbot wouldn't be all that useful.
I included it, because Burn Mage is a thing and oftentimes I stumble upon Reno decks, where the guaranteed heal is needed as all of you said.
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you might as well put a completely different card in the deck that will help prevent the damage taken in a first place better
Thanks for the answer. You are right. I dont have her, but I see now whats her job now. Maybe Youthful Brewmaster can be the option here. I have 2x Hex in my deck to deal with Big Barnes Priest.
HS is not about ladder for me. I play just for fun since Naxx and 90% wild as I have those cool cards like Loatheb.
Hmm. I use the Brewmasters only in my standard lackey deck. Since you don't have Zola, I'd advise you to sick only with the Bog Sloshers. If you add the pandas, you will make Shudderwock's battlecry worse.
But if you are looking for a fun list, I recommend using both Jade Chieftains and Rummaging Kobolds, as they boost the jade generation by a big margin.
Congrats on legend! I have not been having the same success with this deck. I'm running approx 25% win rate.
Sorry to hear that. I will write a guide a bit later today, so I will try to explain the mulligan stage and the different MUs. Did you use my new list or the previous one, which contained the Scoundrels?
Ahm... Aluneth is one of the best cards in Secret Mage (a tier 1 deck):
https://hsreplay.net/decks/3y9GNQS5hEy64mFm1uBBuf/#gameType=RANKED_WILD
Dunno about standard, but in wild Armagedillo gained a lot of popularity due to the amazing support the format can offer. Warriors have built a more mid-rangy quest deck:
https://hsreplay.net/decks/Cl6DP4EunHMZgFcqfdM2yg/#gameType=RANKED_WILD
Well, I'm glad you liked it.
Renounce Warlock you say? I haven't seen this deck for a long time. I wish I stumbled upon more clown fiesta decks like you.
I see, Brann is a good legendary. Anyway before you jump on the ladder with my deck, I would advise you to check some of people's posts in the Quest Jade shaman thread first. I've mentioned there, that my current list doesn't do well against burn mages; it runs some tech cards, but it can't achieve victories consistently. The reason why I am advising you to go there is because you might get an inspiration to try out different builds/packages.
GL. What legendaries do you need to craft beside the shaman quest?
If you ask me, this isn't that much of a problem. As long as you play a lot of jade summoners prior to Shudderwock, you will have plenty of jades on the board, which will threaten the opponent. Personally for me, both of those cards are fine, as it doesn't hurt to gain extra value from Sludge Slurper, EVIL Cable Rat and Jade Spirit against Reno or Taunt Warrior. Sometimes I play Shudder, in order to refill my hand and protect my value from an annoying Dirty Rat. Oftentimes I copy/bounce Loatheb, in order to shut down the opponent's board clears.
But this is only regarding all matchups beside burn mage. I agree with you, as I've said it before, that jade quest shaman isn't good in a meta, where burn mage is running rampant.
Wow, that's just disgusting. I am curious to see how the meta will look like in a couple of weeks and I really hope wild doesn't have that AK74 problem again.
I also think that anti-secret techs are suboptimal, but what else can you do to fight burn mages? If your deck isn't suited to deal with them optimally, you either add some tech cards or go for a different playstyle.
Burn mages can ruin the opponent's tempo in various ways - burning or copying enemy minions, cancelling spells, dealing with durable wide boards. So swarm decks like odd paladin, that can't buff their minions on time, will lose their board rather quickly, spell heavy decks like big priest can't handle the ammount of pressure their opponents will generate. What is left are some minion-based control decks with a lot of sustain and some mid-range decks (who won't be unlucky enough to take a lot of damage from losing small minions to Explosive Runes and letting their bigger threats getting copied by Mirror Entity). High health, low-cost minions could also appear more often, because those counter the aforementioned secrets quite nicely. If I follow this logic, then maybe IF priest will gain popularity again (although this will be kinda hard to do with the nerf to Extra Arms).
A few days ago I created a budget token dudu deck and played some games with it in casual. My very first game was against burn mage and I won that match thanks to the gross amount of buffs I could apply to my mininos. I didn't rush my units into the opponent's face prematurely, so that I wouldn't proc Flame Ward and lose my board. I'm not promoting this deck or anything, I was lucky that the opponent didn't draw Arcane Flakmage on time, but I've noticed that they couldn't deal with wide and tall boards as well.
I used to run LS in my original build, because in the very first days of the expansion I faced a lot of swarm decks (odd pala, murloc pala and shamen, mech hunters). But once I climbed to rank 3 and people jumped on the secret mage bandwagon, most of the aforementioned decklists ceased to exist. I also think, that this AOE would be a great addition to the deck in general, but I'm really sceptical it will be any useful in this meta if things don't change. Against burn mages a 2/3-damage board clear is not what I typically want, especially when it overloads me like you said.
I followed Snapshot426's advice and tried out Hagatha's Scheme. I found the card to be useful against burn mages, which put a lot of pressure on the board (Kabal Crystal Runners, Kirin Tor Mages), but I don't like how slowly it upgrades itself, if I top-deck it in the mid- or lategame. That's why I put so many lackey generators in my deck, so that I could use them to fight for board control.
Nice.
Hi. Welcome to wild. :)
Now, in order for me to answer your question as best as possible, I would like to share two different crafting guides with you, so that you can get an objective opition on the aforementioned legendaries:
https://www.roffle.net/wild-hearthstone-legendary-card-tier-list/
https://outof.cards/forums/hearthstone/card-discussion/375-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
(both lists haven't been updated yet, but they still correctly show the power of some cards)
Loatheb sees a tremendous amount of play in a variety of decks in the current meta:
https://hsreplay.net/decks/#gameType=RANKED_WILD&wildCard=yes&includedCards=1914
And in previous ones aggro decks included him as a tech choice against control (e.g. Pirate Warrior, Odd Hunter, Mid-range Hunter, Aggro Anyfin Paladin, Secret Paladin, Aggro Overload Shaman). Last expansion Loatheb rose even more in popularity, in order to counter the numerous miracle mages on the ladder. Now he serves the same purpose, but against the infamous burn mage.
Zola on the other hand is used in fewer decklists:
But with the increase of burn mages on the ladder, healing decks stood as their biggest counter and imho Zola the Gorgon is essential in there.
So if our discussion regarded the utility of those legendaries, I would say that both of them are safe crafts in this meta, but Loatheb is the best candidate overall. Now, if I have to regard my deck, I would say that Zola isn't really mandatory, though she offers a big help in outvaluing our opponent or copying vital cards (Eater of Secrets, Antique Healbot, Sandstorm Elemental, Loatheb and sometimes Shudderwock). The Bog Sloshers should be enough for you for now. I'm still experimenting with the deck, so I can't give you any proper tips on how to refine it, but I think that Zilliax will fill this gap.
Someone really loves to downvote people here. :D Anyway from my ladder experience, I can say the following:
Secret Mage has the biggest impact on the meta. When the entire SOU set was revealed, I knew this deck would be very dominant, but I didn't expect to see mech hunters, odd paladins and odd rogues to disappear from the ladder and Reno lists to take their place. Here's a list of the different decks I played against between rank 6-Legend:
I can't foresee what decks will remain popular until the next expansion, but for now I will repeat what others have said before me - Burn Mage and Reno Decks are here to stay. Boulster Quest Warrior has a lot of potential imo, same goes to the new version of Even Shaman. Healing and armour gain are the natural counters to burn, so maybe Odd Warriors will appear again, but I am curious to see how they will outvalue Reno decks.
Yeah, that happens. Yesterday I went to rank 1**** with my previous list and lost a lot of games, so I fell back to rank 3. Climbed a bit and from rank 2 onwards I just used the current build (I had 3 or 4 losses with it).
Btw right now I'm writing the deck guide, so if you are interested, it will be finished soon.
I assume you want to express your contempt with this mechanic, right? Well, it's no surprise that it's broken and it will continue to see massive play in wild.
Yeah, I've noticed it too. Very satisfying.
Thanks for your kind words and the tips.
I used to run 2 Eater of Secrets, but I removed the second copy.
Thanks for sharing your decklist, it looks really solid. But I think, that in terms of the jade package we mostly use the same cards. Your deck utilizes only the good jade summoners, but at the end Shudderwock does all the work and summons massive green men for both of us. I really like the overload package you've included, since it allows you to gain board control in the early game and overwhelm your enemies with whatever cards you throw at them.
Thanks for the advice. I will definitely consider him.
If I have to be honest with you, I also thought about using Tar Creeper, since it offers the best cheap taunt in the game, but I wasn't really sure if I wanted to include non-battlecry minions and delay quest completion. NightCrawler advised me to run Zilliax, so I might consider him. I am certain, that healing is needed, since the deck doesn't have that many defensive tools.
Regarding MCT - I tried him and I was really disappointed in him in wild (in standard the gnome was doing fine). The reason for that lies in the fact, that either the opponents have 3 big minions on the board and I can't use his battlecry or, if I hold him in my hand in order to gain value, I risk taking a lot of damage and I just dig my own grave. And there are other cases, when I just low-roll and take the worst minion. That's why I decided to use Plague of Murlocs and this is doing extremely well for me.
Like I said, I will stick with Antique Healbot for now, since Burn Mages are extremely popular. If the meta somehow changes, I might include Jinyu again.
Well, may I say the following? Running Antique Healbot in a Shudderwock deck wasn't something unusual for me. In the past I created various decklists featuring C'Thun and Yogg and the bot was useful there. But those utilized a defensive playstyle, so running the 5-mana minion made sense. My current deck tries to be somewhat proactive and I think the Jinyu is better against board-centered decks like Odd Rogue and Zoolock, which don't aim to burn you on the spot, but to slowly gain board control and overwhelm you from there. And I liked the prior minion far more than the mech, as it contests the opponent's minions and I can play it a turn earlier. If I can't survive until turn 9, then the healbot wouldn't be all that useful.
I included it, because Burn Mage is a thing and oftentimes I stumble upon Reno decks, where the guaranteed heal is needed as all of you said.
Like what? What do you have in mind?
Hmm. I use the Brewmasters only in my standard lackey deck. Since you don't have Zola, I'd advise you to sick only with the Bog Sloshers. If you add the pandas, you will make Shudderwock's battlecry worse.
But if you are looking for a fun list, I recommend using both Jade Chieftains and Rummaging Kobolds, as they boost the jade generation by a big margin.
Sorry to hear that. I will write a guide a bit later today, so I will try to explain the mulligan stage and the different MUs. Did you use my new list or the previous one, which contained the Scoundrels?